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#1 2007-05-08 10:22:50

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Meri notes in Kan.

Greetings,

I have a question regarding playing Meri in Kan. Although I can get up to Chi no Kan or so as far as the Kari notes go, I have some trouble with notes that are heavily Meri. If I play Meri on Ro no Kan I can keep the sound going but the resulting pitch doesn't drop nearly as much as it does in Otsu. If I find the position for Ro Dai Meri in Otsu and try to blow it in Kan instead, the resulting note is only barely different from normal Ro no Kan. If I blow Ro no Kan and start to slowly slide my chin down the sound doesn't really change much.

Is there something special you need to do with Meri on Kan or am I just unconsciously changing the way I play so that despite the chin tilt I still get the same Kari notes?

Another question on the same topic is about notes like Tsu Meri where you open a hole only slightly. Is there something special that needs to be done on a 1.8 flute when you play Tsu Meri in Kan? I can't really produce any sound whatsoever - not even a bad one - if I try to play the note the same way I play it in Otsu. On a large bore 2.5 I can actually get Tsu Meri no Kan almost right thanks to the holes being so big that it's much easier to get the meri right while still leaving the hole open enough. On 1.8 it just doesn't happen. I need to open up the hole almost to the point where it gets closer to Tsu Chu Meri and then it sounds both funny and sad at the same time.

Can you play Tsu Meri in both Otsu and Kan without changing the angle of the flute or the way you cover the hole or is there some kind of secret to this that nobody told me?

Thank you in advance.

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#2 2007-07-11 12:51:12

shinkage ryu
Member
From: Virginia
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 19

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

Hey there,

One of the things that I believe messes people up is that when they play in kan, they tend to get a little bit "too" close to the utaguchi.  If you practice hard enough, you can play meri or Kari by changing the embouchure alone (although I dont think this method is recommended).  It could perhaps be an issue with the bore of the flute.  I know that when I switched from a 2.4 to a 1.8 and try to play the kan notes in meri, it became much easier, but on the wider bore , I found it more difficult.  Also, make sure you arent blowing "harder" to get the kan notes, you should try to just make the air more pressurized.  With good diaphragm control, you can unlock many secrets.  : )   good luck!


“What sort of person are you, really, inside and what lies concealed there?”—the shakuhachi will undoubtedly supply the answer"
       
              (taken from: "Take No Kokoro" by by Kurahashi Yodo Sensei)

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#3 2007-07-12 05:51:25

JF Lagrost
Shihan/Tozan Ryu
From: Paris (France)
Registered: 2006-10-19
Posts: 73
Website

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

For tsu meri, there is a balance to find between the opening of the first hole and the angle with the mouth so that the sound is at the same time good tuned and open (clear). Once this position found (fingers and mouth), it is necessary to be able to quickly find it while playing.
In my opinion, a good means for you of working the meri notes is to play the same note with two different fingerings (ro & tsu dai meri, tsu meri & ro kari...), by making sure of course that the height does not vary, but also as much as possible the tone and the nuance. You should make 6 or 7 notes without breathing, two seconds approximately
each one, by connecting them in a clear way.

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#4 2007-07-13 03:39:08

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

Amokrun asked

Can you play Tsu Meri in both Otsu and Kan without changing the angle of the flute or the way you cover the hole or is there some kind of secret to this that nobody told me?

Yes, you should be able to play both without changing the angle of the flute or the way you are covering the holes.  There's no secret except except consistent practice and the fact that you should try and narrow your airstream when playing kan, as Shinkage Ryu noted.

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2007-07-13 03:42:58)

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#5 2007-07-13 07:52:09

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

Yes, what Daniel says.
Rather than trying to come up with all kinds of arcane ways to achieve a particular common sound, I think it's really a matter of practicing it the straight-forward way until you get it. Try this exercise: play a note in otsu then change it to kan on the same breath, trying to make sure your body is completely still other than your embouchure AND making sure you're in tune in both octaves. Do this for every note, kari and meri. Some notes may be more difficult than others to play in tune in kan, but it's just a matter of practice to get it. It may be helpful to use a tuner occasionally.

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#6 2007-07-13 21:34:43

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

Hi Amok,

amokrun wrote:

Greetings,

Is there something special you need to do with Meri on Kan or am I just unconsciously changing the way I play so that despite the chin tilt I still get the same Kari notes?

A chin tilt is what most people consider to be the thing that flattens a pitch but what really should be happening is the embouchure should be closing down so that the the utaguchi and lip gap is smaller. Many experience players meri with a tilt to the side as opposed to the front because that gets the lips closer into one of the side edges of the utaguchi as opposed to the middle. Try pushing your lips into the flute to meri instead of tilting your head and see what happens.

Another question on the same topic is about notes like Tsu Meri where you open a hole only slightly. Is there something special that needs to be done on a 1.8 flute when you play Tsu Meri in Kan? I can't really produce any sound whatsoever - not even a bad one - if I try to play the note the same way I play it in Otsu. On a large bore 2.5 I can actually get Tsu Meri no Kan almost right thanks to the holes being so big that it's much easier to get the meri right while still leaving the hole open enough. On 1.8 it just doesn't happen. I need to open up the hole almost to the point where it gets closer to Tsu Chu Meri and then it sounds both funny and sad at the same time.

I remember hearing from my teachers that the my Tsu meri should be flatter when I was first taking lessons. It took a long time to develope the technique to produce the proper pitch and tone color on any flute.

Can you play Tsu Meri in both Otsu and Kan without changing the angle of the flute or the way you cover the hole or is there some kind of secret to this that nobody told me?

Thank you in advance.

It is not a matter of doing the same thing and blowing harder. Each flute is different and behaves accordingly. It's a matter of finding how your flutes likes it to be played. Here is MY secret on how to get a good Tsu Meri.:

Start by working on your Kan no Tsu so that you can play it loud and confidently. Make it last as long as you can, 30 seconds at least. When you can consistently do this, start to meri the pitch to the flattest pitch possible without covering hole #1. As you work on this, you will notice that the pitch will go flatter and flatter as time goes by. When you feel you have reached the flattest , confident Tsu, it is then that you should add your finger. Add it slowly during the middle of a breath and you will feel how the flutes wants it to be played. You'll have to pay attention to find the balance between how much hole coverage and how much to push or pull back on the embouchure pressure. It may be that only a quarter or half  holing is all that t needs to bring it to proper pitch and desired tone color.

I hope this makes sense.
Good luck, Perry

Last edited by Yungflutes (2007-07-13 21:36:19)


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#7 2007-07-14 09:30:25

Horst Xenmeister
Shiham
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-05-26
Posts: 69
Website

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

If you do not form at all meri notes in kan, without of the meal from of shred with Essstaebchen to think it, is not many simpler to form meri the notes in otsu with cast bore shakuhachi

Last edited by Horst Xenmeister (2007-07-14 09:34:57)


i am horst

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#8 2007-07-14 10:12:31

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

Yungflutes wrote:

Start by working on your Kan no Tsu so that you can play it loud and confidently. Make it last as long as you can, 30 seconds at least. When you can consistently do this, start to meri the pitch to the flattest pitch possible without covering hole #1. As you work on this, you will notice that the pitch will go flatter and flatter as time goes by. When you feel you have reached the flattest , confident Tsu, it is then that you should add your finger. Add it slowly during the middle of a breath and you will feel how the flutes wants it to be played. You'll have to pay attention to find the balance between how much hole coverage and how much to push or pull back on the embouchure pressure. It may be that only a quarter or half  holing is all that t needs to bring it to proper pitch and desired tone color.

Thanks for the idea as well as thanks to everyone for all the tips. On our last lesson my teacher mentioned that I tend to cover the hole in Tsu Meri too much and thus it becomes hard to play it like that in Kan. Once I started to bend my neck more and cover the hole less I started to get a better Tsu Meri in Kan. It is still far from perfect but at least I can get it and the pitch comes out right.

As for going back and forth between the same note in both octaves, I do that practice every day. It has been one of the things I do the most apart from playing pieces. Very useful thing which I recommend to everyone. It is very hard to get it right for notes like Ri/Hi and I.

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#9 2007-11-29 10:06:09

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

I got the 'covering hole thing too much' as well for Tsu Meri (in Otsu).

Perry, Tairaku, et al, could you elaborate on the meri side-tilt technique?  I'm curious as to when this is appropriate, or if it's a matter of personal preference.  Don't worry, I won't second-guess my teacher.  smile

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#10 2007-11-29 20:45:47

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Meri notes in Kan.

axolotl wrote:

Perry, Tairaku, et al, could you elaborate on the meri side-tilt technique?

The best way to grok this is to watch someone do it; in this case, Tairaku, playing 'Kyushu Reibo':


         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl0pjipzVk


eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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