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#1 2007-12-01 06:52:34

dreamofnobody
Member
From: Russia, Krasnodar
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 50

Can I save it?

This autumn I have gone for bamboo harvesting. It was my thirst experience so there was some mistakes. There is a photo of one bamboo piece that was cracked then I tried to take it out from the ground.


http://foto.rambler.ru/public/freewaygates/3/1/1-web.jpg


http://foto.rambler.ru/public/freewaygates/3/2/2-web.jpg


Can you tell me with your experience is this crack critical? Do I have any chance to save this piece in some way?

Thank's.

Last edited by dreamofnobody (2007-12-01 06:54:59)


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#2 2007-12-01 12:10:42

Mujitsu
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
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Re: Can I save it?

dreamofnobody wrote:

Can you tell me with your experience is this crack critical? Do I have any chance to save this piece in some way?

Most any crack can be repaired. Placing the bamboo in a humid box will close the crack. (Or place in a sealed plastic bag along with a damp rag) Then you can either bind or glue and bind. It doesn't look like a problem.

Ken

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#3 2007-12-01 14:06:22

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
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Re: Can I save it?

Mujitsu wrote:

dreamofnobody wrote:

Can you tell me with your experience is this crack critical? Do I have any chance to save this piece in some way?

Most any crack can be repaired. Placing the bamboo in a humid box will close the crack. (Or place in a sealed plastic bag along with a damp rag) Then you can either bind or glue and bind. It doesn't look like a problem.

Ken

Does that mean you would bind the root? That seems like it might be difficult.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#4 2007-12-01 14:12:49

Mujitsu
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
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Re: Can I save it?

radi0gnome wrote:

Does that mean you would bind the root? That seems like it might be difficult.

I wouldn't bind on the root itself but just underneath it. That should do the trick.

Although this may be a crack caused by harvesting, small, natural cracks around the roots are common. They rarely become an issue.



Ken

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#5 2007-12-01 15:46:50

dreamofnobody
Member
From: Russia, Krasnodar
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 50

Re: Can I save it?

Thank's Ken. It is good news for me because it's very nice piece of bamboo. smile

I can suppose that I have to bind this piece as soon as possible, because if it will loose moisture the crack can enlarge. Am I right?

Last edited by dreamofnobody (2007-12-01 16:22:50)


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#6 2007-12-01 16:39:30

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Can I save it?

What I would suggest, because of that location, is to get some very thin cyanoacrilate glue (CA) and introduce it into the crack. This is not to
fill the crack (it wouldn't hold that crack shut anyway), thereby sealing its inner surface and reducing moisture loss at that point.

The CA should be fresh, and of good quality. You can get it at any good hobby shop; smallest container, 5 bucks or so.

Wipe the surface free of any excess quickly and let it cure. There are also accelerators available which will cause instant cure (atomized spray
application).

Because it will lose moisture and open up a bit more. If you bind it just above, or a bit higher, it should stay put.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#7 2007-12-02 03:43:18

dreamofnobody
Member
From: Russia, Krasnodar
Registered: 2007-01-26
Posts: 50

Re: Can I save it?

Thank's edosan.
Why this type of glue? I have some epoxy glue, is it less suitable?


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#8 2007-12-02 03:48:15

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Can I save it?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but some makers make put super glue into the crack and mix in some bamboo powder (created by the drilling of holes and filing).

Or in the case of Mujitsu, a mixture of super glue, bamboo powder and a bit of Bombay Sapphire. cool


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

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#9 2007-12-02 09:37:48

brewerpaul
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Registered: 2007-11-27
Posts: 3
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Re: Can I save it?

Tairaku wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but some makers make put super glue into the crack and mix in some bamboo powder (created by the drilling of holes and filing).

Or in the case of Mujitsu, a mixture of super glue, bamboo powder and a bit of Bombay Sapphire. cool

I do something like this with the exotic wood pennywhistles I make. Two options:

1) Mix up some 5 minute epoxy glue and blend in that bamboo dust.  Work the resulting mixture into the crack and let it harden for 24 hr. Then sand off the excess. 

2) Work some bamboo dust deep into the crack, then drop some CA glue ("water thin" variety) onto the crack.  If you try to mix the glue with the dust first, it will set almost instantly and be impossible to work with. If the crack hasn't been completely filled, add more dust and more CA. Sand the excessl


Blow another type of flute? www.busmanwhistles.com

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#10 2007-12-02 10:22:05

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Can I save it?

Either of the above approaches may be useful, but only if the crack is stabilized and has finished drying and opening (which it probably hasn't at this point). I would continue fabricating/drying the shakuhachi and worry about the cosmetics when things are more settled (although the application of Bombay Sapphire is recommended in any case).

I dislike using epoxy for filling wide cracks, as it is often hydrophilic (absorbs moisture) and can, in time, bulge out of the crack. I'd stick to the use of CA/bamboo dust to fill the crack once it is stabilized, with the addition of binding upwards of the crack. Bear in mind that there is NO GLUE on the planet that will keep a crack in bamboo closed; the glue is filler, at best.  I like to make very homogeneous bamboo dust using a sanding stick made with 100 grit or coarser garnet paper taped with doubled-sided tape to a 2 inch wide flat stick. Generally, at the root end, I prefer the appearance of an open crack to one filled with materal. Wabi-sabi, and all that.

Here's a pic of the preferred CA:

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/3294/cyanoacrylatethin4cd.jpg

As mentioned in a previous post, it's obtainable at any good hobby shop (may not be this brand--get the thinnest formula).

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#11 2007-12-02 13:00:12

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
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Re: Can I save it?

I'm not a big fan of filling cracks. As a rule I like to close the crack as much as possible first to get the bamboo back to where it wants to be naturally. Besides, I waste less Sapphire that way! However, cracks around the root end rarely turn into anything serious so I think either method is fine.

Ken

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#12 2007-12-07 01:16:42

Yooper
Member
From: Michigan, on the WI border
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 57

Re: Can I save it?

I figured that if the bamboo cracked, it was to relieve stress, so that's how it wanted to be naturally.  To my thinking, filling a crack would be more stable in the long term than trying to close it again and hold it shut. 

This topic is near and dear to me, as I have two flutes with cracking problems:  one only cosmetic, and one cracked into all the fingerholes, leaking air and therefore unplayable (despite being bound).  Humidity failed to close the cracks in either one, so  I filled the cracks with Superglue, and it seems  to have worked so far. 

Perhaps liberal application of Bombay Sapphire would relieve my stress about the problem.

BTW, I have had a Ken Lacosse flute for about 10 years and it has shown absolutely no inclination toward cracking whatsoever.


"Simple and artless."

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#13 2007-12-07 10:10:17

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Can I save it?

Yooper wrote:

I figured that if the bamboo cracked, it was to relieve stress, so that's how it wanted to be naturally.  To my thinking, filling a crack would be more stable in the long term than trying to close it again and hold it shut.

Hi Mark,

Ultimately, whatever works for you is the best way!

When I say "where it wants to be" I suppose I'm being more poetic than anything. In my direct experience, I've repaired many, many shakuhachi with filled cracks that opened up. I've found if I close the crack first, it's more likely to hold. So, I go with the odds. As always, your results may vary!

Cheers,

Ken

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