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#1 2007-12-07 01:00:37

Yooper
Member
From: Michigan, on the WI border
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 57

Long story

I first heard a shakuhachi about 20 years ago, when my college girlfriend's flute teacher played "Haru no ami" at a lunchtime concert .  Not being musical myself, I bought a couple CD's and let it go at that.  Ten years ago, my wife (not the college girlfriend) bought me a shakuhachi by Richard Allen at an art show, when I was able to get a couple notes out of it.  I bought a couple playing guides, and even took some lessons from the college girlfriend's flute teacher.  Improvement did not occur, so naturally I blamed the flute, and bought student-grade instruments by Ken LaCosse and Monty Levenson, but progress remained elusive.  I got discouraged, and eventually the flutes remained unmolested in a drawer while I went back to school, got a new job, bought a house, and had two children.

Then this past summer I was visiting some Aikido friends in Wisconsin, and a member of our group called out to Peter Phippen as he walked by the table at which we were eating.  We were treated to a tour of his flute case and a very nice little lunchtime concert.  The shakuhachi was everyone's favorite, of course.  On another visit to the same friends, I noticed a shakuhachi in a box and asked if I could try it.  I suprised myself by being able to play a couple of the very first songs from Carl Abbot's book, and my friend insisted that I take the instrument, as he'd bought it at a Renaissance fair and been unable to play it.  Oddly, I find it easier to play than my more expensive instruments.

So I've resumed practicing, and have had some small improvement, largely due to the helpful tips posted here.  In addition to being educational, the site is entertaining as well, and I'd like to thank the contributors for their effort and generosity. If this site had been up ten years ago, I might not have given up the first time.


"Simple and artless."

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#2 2007-12-07 02:10:45

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Long story

Welcome to the forum. I can tell by the way you posted your location that you are actually identifying yourself with Wisconson, rightfully so. Greetings from a fellow son of the Fatherland, originally from Milwaukee. Regards, BR


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2007-12-07 02:29:04

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Long story

Yooper wrote:

I suprised myself by being able to play a couple of the very first songs from Carl Abbot's book, and my friend insisted that I take the instrument, as he'd bought it at a Renaissance fair and been unable to play it.  Oddly, I find it easier to play than my more expensive instruments.

My experience is that shakuhachi are like human relationships. The ones that work for you aren't necessarily the ones that others regard as good. If you find an instrument that cost $1 somewhere and nobody wants but it plays perfectly when you try it, just go for it and ignore all that. I've tried some really expensive flutes that I wouldn't want to play at all whereas some really cheap instruments have been great for me. The trick is to try out as many as you can and get the ones you like. The most expensive flute in the hands of someone who doesn't like it would serve its purpose better had it been left to grow in the forest.

Welcome to the forum!

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#4 2007-12-08 03:31:41

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Long story

amokrun wrote:

My experience is that shakuhachi are like human relationships. The ones that work for you aren't necessarily the ones that others regard as good. If you find an instrument that cost $1 somewhere and nobody wants but it plays perfectly when you try it, just go for it and ignore all that. I've tried some really expensive flutes that I wouldn't want to play at all whereas some really cheap instruments have been great for me.

Unfortunately for me, my experience has shown that the makers do a pretty good job of pricing their flutes based (mostly) upon the instrument's quality... the sound quality I seem to get out of the flutes appear closely attached to the price (I hope it's not just psychological). At this rate, once I get my hands on a $100,000 flute, I may sound like a pro!big_smile

Zak


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#5 2007-12-08 05:08:33

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Long story

Zakarius wrote:

Unfortunately for me, my experience has shown that the makers do a pretty good job of pricing their flutes based (mostly) upon the instrument's quality... the sound quality I seem to get out of the flutes appear closely attached to the price (I hope it's not just psychological).

This is most likely true when considering the flutes of one maker and comparing them against each other. Say, most expensive flute from Ken is most likely better than his cheapest one. On the other hand, you may find that cheaper flutes from maker A are better for you than more expensive flutes from maker B. There are countless factors that can make a difference here and thus it's hard to compare flutes from different makers that are made in different ways. I've tried flutes that cost over five times as much as mine and I didn't like them nearly as much.

The problem gets even more tricky when buying flutes that weren't made by the seller. In cases where the maker is not even alive anymore you run into having to set a price based on all sorts of factors that may or may not reflect the value of the flute to you, the potential buyer. It may or may not matter that the flute was made by some particular famous person two hundred years ago. Yet, that is almost guaranteed to bring the price up a lot.

Suppose that I made a flute right now that plays exactly like another instrument made by the third Kinko. If price alone was a good way to tell how good given flute is, you'd think that my creation would sell for the same price as the equally good flute from third Kinko himself. Odds are, however, that there would be a huge difference in price. Furthermore, the flute wouldn't be worth much to someone who doesn't like that kind of flute to begin with.

My advice is to try as many flutes as possible. It might even pay off to not look at the prices too much before trying the flutes out. I know all too well that testing an instrument that costs a fortune basically forces you to like it for the first couple of times. Not knowing which flutes are expensive might be a good way to put all that aside and focus on if the flute really is good for you. The downside of this method is that you'll end up picking some extremely expensive instrument that you can't afford in the end. :-)

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#6 2007-12-08 08:51:34

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Long story

Assuming you're dealing with reputable and experienced people who are selling the flutes, I have found that shakuhachi are closer to "you get what you pay for" than most products. Of course there are some glaring exceptions, for instance when the maker's name artificially inflates the value, and of course personal taste is a factor. But generally speaking, a very inexpensive bamboo shakuhachi is simply not going to serve you in the long run -- as you grow as a player and master new techniques -- as well as a more skillfully made, and hence more expensive, flute.

The biggest problem with all of this, as has been stated many times here, is that a beginner cannot possibly judge the quality of a flute without the assistance of a teacher or at least a very experienced player. The subjective judgment of "liking" a flute, or "having it speak to you," is often misleading. I have watched many beginners trying out flutes, and liking a flute often meant that they were able to get a somewhat decent sound on it right away, a gratifying but not too meaningful experience. Getting an OK sound easily with beginner technique says very little about the overall quality of the flute, or its value to you in a year or two. If you are serious about playing and practice a lot, very soon other factors will become important to you that you hadn't considered or hadn't tested. In other words, as you develop as a player you may quickly outgrow the flute that seemed so likeable at first. That's no problem if the flute is REALLY cheap, like a Yuu, but depending on your finances it can become a big problem if it's a five hundred dollar bamboo clunker that's hard to resell.

I realize that I sound kind of curmudgeonly on this topic, but those of us who've been around a while and didn't have the benefit of a forum like this have made this mistake many times -- "trusting our gut" on a flute, thinking we were pretty good judges of quality or at least suitability, only to regret it a year or two down the road. I feel very secure now about my ability to judge the suitability of a flute for myself or for a student, but that's only after years and years of study and listening.

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#7 2007-12-08 09:39:06

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Long story

nyokai wrote:

But generally speaking, a very inexpensive bamboo shakuhachi is simply not going to serve you in the long run -- as you grow as a player and master new techniques -- as well as a more skillfully made, and hence more expensive, flute.

Good that you pointed this out. I was going to write something along the lines of "if your shakuhachi cost less than X, odds are that it isn't going to work for you". When I couldn't decide on a good value for X I left that part out. It would seem logical to assume that, say, shakuhachi under $100 are most likely not that great in the long run. I'm sure someone can find me an exception but it makes sense as a general rule. Under $500 is most likely not going to work for long on lessons unless it's a Yuu or something similar. I think my teacher was talking about roughly 1000 euros for a good flute for someone who is seriously trying to get somewhere, give or take couple of hundred euros to both directions depending on luck. Naturally it all depends on what kind of offers one happens to find.

The single largest advantage us current beginners have is that everything has been tried before and thus we have the luxury of asking for help before jumping into anything. For this I am very thankful.

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#8 2007-12-10 00:30:21

Yooper
Member
From: Michigan, on the WI border
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 57

Re: Long story

I think that's absolutely true.  I find all four flutes similarly responsive, which indicates that I can't play well enough to evaluate them.  I am optimistic, though, that the student-grade flutes will be more than adequate for my purposes for the forseeable future, as they were bought from reputable makers.  And I haven't wasted money on the less-expensive instruments, as they were gifts.  Eventually perhaps I will improve enough to recognize their inadequacies, but in the meantime I enjoy playing them very much, as I prefer the tone of the unfinished bores.  But that's a different topic.

Thanks everyone, for the advice, encouragement, and the friendly welcome.


"Simple and artless."

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