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#1 2008-01-17 09:49:47

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

I'm planning on going on a 3-day, 2-night hiking & camping trip in the mountains in a couple of weeks and the night temperatures are certain to be below freezing. I asked Perry Yung, the maker of my flutes, if he thought it was a bad idea to take a flute with me... here's his response:

Yungflutes wrote:

I think cracking is more of a result form heat or drying, or a combination of both. I don't recall hearing frm people about a flute cracking due to cold weather. However, blowing into a cold flute may result in cracking because of the rapid introduction of change in temperature (warm inside - cold outside). If a flute is cold, it should acclimate to the surroundings before being played. I spent time in the snow once in Karuizawa, Japan where we hiked and played shakuhachi outdoors. I kept the flute inside my jacket next to my body so that it was warm before I played it. I didn't have any problems.

Perry suggested that I post here and see if others in the community have any experience and/or advice.

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#2 2008-01-17 10:25:13

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

Things get fairly cold here in Finland during winter. The only cracks I have ever gotten on a flute were, as far as I could tell, directly related to taking a flute out during very cold weather. I transported one flute from my home to another place a couple of times. It was always stored in a bag properly but several cracks still appeared on the surface. After I stopped taking any flutes outside during the winter period I haven't had a single crack on any of my flutes. I believe very strongly that cold weather affects shakuhachi, either because of cold or because air is generally very dry if temperature goes down. It could be just luck but I would find it strange that I have a flute that cracks as soon as it gets taken outside and then I have no cracks for nearly two years after that.

Of course, this was quite cold weather. If you are at zero degrees celsius or so it might be less of an issue. Past -10 or even -20, I certainly would not take a bamboo shakuhachi outside. This may be nothing but voodoo magic on my part but I honestly believe that really cold weather is a factor in cracking.

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#3 2008-01-17 10:34:32

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

The second time I went to shikoku and the 88 temples pilgrimage it was winter. It was a few weeks of constant outdoors and my sleeping bag and tent at night. I always kept the flute in it's leather bag when hiking and I think I may have put it in my sleeping bag at night. It was cold and some nights were spent in the snow on top of the mountains and my flute survived no problem. Playing outside most of the time it takes awile for the flute to warm up, and usually by the time it started to warm up my fingers started to go too numb to play anymore. So there was a lot of walk awhile, play one song, walk some more, play a song...   Don't forget that if your hiking in freezing temps make sure you clean the water out of the flute often.

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#4 2008-01-17 12:42:28

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

I've had one of my flutes in pretty cold backpacking weather a few times.  The night temps were 25-28F, day temps 40's. Its one of Perry's 2.0 with a laquered bore.  I keep al my flutes in plastic bags and then in a fleece wrap to slow down the temp changes.  Then thow in my sleeping bag at night. 

One thing to be mindful of is if the Bamboo of the flute has a higher moisture content( or is natural un-coated bore)it is possible freezing temps could cause enough expansion to crack it.

It is so nice playing outside int the wilderness though!

Have a great trip!!!

Ken

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#5 2008-01-17 15:40:06

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

Zak, I don't think it's stupid.  But I also think it might crack.  And if it does, it's fixable.

I wish I could take that attitude with all my flutes (I can't), but I did carry a 2.1 unlacquered jinashikan on a trip for a few days into the mountains last year.  It was in an unheated PVC tube strapped to a bike, with temps between -5 and +5 C.  When I blew the flute at night, sitting by a fire, the very real possibility that the flute was in "danger" made for a heightened sense of blowing.  I'm certain of this.

My flute didn't crack and I'm very glad I brought it.  Now I see my previous "unfavorite" flute in a different way...  it's a hardy little soldier!  smile  And it smelled like "outdoors" and campfire for a while afterwards.  Nice.

-Darren.

P.S. - I also took hose clamps and rubber, just in case...


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#6 2008-01-17 20:01:00

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

dstone wrote:

P.S. - I also took hose clamps and rubber, just in case...

Hmmm... wouldn't having it fully bound prior to the trip serve the same purpose preemptively? From Perry's response it sounds like the chances of damage are minimal anyway, so a nice set of bindings would decrease the chance of any problems even further just in case. The fishing line ones aren't that hard to apply yourself, maybe it won't be as pretty as a professional job, but still not bad. As far as instruments to carry in my car when the weather gets cold (and in general, excessive heat can't be good either and it's probably not the best idea to keep your most prized instruments in a car), I chose a plastic flute instead of a wooden Irish flute and a wooden shakuhachi instead of bamboo. Something tells me my logic is flawed... smile However, I think I should check on that plumwood kaval that's been sitting in that case in the trunk for a couple years now.

...

I just checked and the kaval is fine. It was in the trunk of my car since Oct 2006 in New England weather. I have a hunch that these instruments are more robust than we give them credit for. Of course, that leaves open the question as to why some of them seem prone to cracking no matter what you do. Maybe it's poor selection of stock or improper curing. I also have a feeling that extremes like sub zero fahrenheit like in Finland or getting one too close to a campfire probably will test the limits of any wood or bamboo instrument.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#7 2008-01-17 23:34:41

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

Thanks for all of your great responses & suggestions. Though cracks are fixable, I don't think I want to tempt fate with an instrument which cost me more than a month's salary. Perhaps I'll take my lower-end super long flute -- cold fingers on a lower flute with slower pieces seems a better match, anyways wink

Zak -- jinashi size queen

Last edited by Zakarius (2008-01-17 23:35:48)


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#8 2008-01-18 00:08:44

baian
Member
Registered: 2006-03-28
Posts: 83

Re: Extreme cold + shakuhachi = extremely stupid?

Besides,what about the woodblocks of komuso playing in the snow, or the tales of Nezasa players melting the snow they were sitting in by playing, or the tales of traditional shakuhachi masters having their students playing barefoot in the snow till the flutes grew icicles?

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