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I am sure there must be a classical term for this, I have not seen reference to it, so for discussion I am calling it 'Harmonic Vibrato'.
I first noticed it when blowing Ro while making a new flute. Then I began to notice it on other flutes.
While blowing Ro and moving between Otsu and Kan and higher, but particularly while moving between Otsu and Kan, as the two frequencies begin to mingle there is a vibrato formed, its speed varies as you move in either direction, it is very elusive, and quite tantalising. I can see myself getting seduced into mastering this pulse.
Then while playing other flutes I begin to notice very brief appearances between notes, a phasing perhaps.
My curiosity is whether this is a recognised technique and what it may be called ?
Kel §
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Karmajampa wrote:
I am sure there must be a classical term for this, I have not seen reference to it, so for discussion I am calling it 'Harmonic Vibrato'.
I first noticed it when blowing Ro while making a new flute. Then I began to notice it on other flutes.
While blowing Ro and moving between Otsu and Kan and higher, but particularly while moving between Otsu and Kan, as the two frequencies begin to mingle there is a vibrato formed, its speed varies as you move in either direction, it is very elusive, and quite tantalising. I can see myself getting seduced into mastering this pulse.
Then while playing other flutes I begin to notice very brief appearances between notes, a phasing perhaps.
My curiosity is whether this is a recognised technique and what it may be called ?
Kel §
Sometimes if you push ro and it goes into kan or wavers we call that "unstable ro". That's when it's inherent in the flute itself.
If you are doing it with your embouchure it is a form of "muraiki".
Of course without actually hearing what you are doing or playing your flute I can't be sure.
Shinku Dan has an interesting CD called "Koku" which is constantly shifting between otsu and kan during the same note.
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This is not 'unstable Ro', it can be deliberate or incidental. For example, blow Ro Otsu, then move towards Ro Kan, as soon as you begin to hear the Ro Kan while Ro Otsu is still sounding you should notice this vibrato effect. It does not require the effort of Muraiki. Depending on the amount of Ro Otsu to Ro Kan, the speed of the vibrato will change. It is somewhat like tuning two guitar strings, as the notes get closer to the same frequency you can hear a vibrato slowing down as the frequency is aligned.
I will see if I can make an mp3...may take a wee while.
Kel §
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Karmajampa wrote:
This is not 'unstable Ro', it can be deliberate or incidental. For example, blow Ro Otsu, then move towards Ro Kan, as soon as you begin to hear the Ro Kan while Ro Otsu is still sounding you should notice this vibrato effect. It does not require the effort of Muraiki. Depending on the amount of Ro Otsu to Ro Kan, the speed of the vibrato will change. It is somewhat like tuning two guitar strings, as the notes get closer to the same frequency you can hear a vibrato slowing down as the frequency is aligned.
I will see if I can make an mp3...may take a wee while.
Kel §
Then it is called "beating". It happens whenever there are two notes vibrating closely, but not exactly, together.
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Yes it sounds like that, though the two notes I had assumed were one octave apart, I think perhaps it is the first harmonic in the Ro Otsu 'beating' with the Ro Kan.
I have a 475kb wav file. Tried unsuccessfully to make it into an mp3.
Don't see a facility to upload it but will attach it to an email if anyone wishes to hear it, email me above.
Kel §
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Assuming that we are indeed talking about the same phenomenon:
Once I was auditioning a 2.1 I was considering buying, and this beating sound occurred on Re-otsu. Kurahashi-sensei happened to be visiting at the time, and he said it was called 'Dancing Flute', a generally undesirable characteristic when it shows up on a given fingering with regularity.
Didn't buy the flute, of course.
eB
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Edosan, after consideration I now feel it is not an effect that is controlably useful. On longer flutes, 2.1+, it can give a nice modulation but on shorter flutes it is too fast and variable.
Also, I am wondering whether this is indicating some mis-tuning of the flute as a good tuning should not give this 'beat', or it is to do with the transition between Otsu and Kan notes where the mingling of frequencies gives rise to this phenomenon. In most circumstances I don't stall at this medium point, usually pass on through.
Sigwada, check your fingering, I get interesting 'between' note sounds if two or more fingers are being applied at the same time, we don't always get them down, or up, in unison, this gives us a moment of intermediate pressure activity.
Kel §
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Kel,
In my experience, that effect (I call it 'warbling', for want of a better term), when it occurs in playing a single note (in the aforementioned case it was Re), is a sign of a problem with the flute. It is usually most noticeable when one tries to increase the volume of the note--to 'push' it--and it just won't be pushed, but degrades into warbling.
I have not encountered it in the transition between octaves.
eB
Last edited by edosan (2006-03-16 09:51:16)
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'warbling' I think Ed, is unique to the Northern Hemisphere. ;-)
I'll send you this .wav file for your auditory perusal. Hope you are not on Mac.
It is not so easy to achieve, then many Shakuhachi artifacts are not easy to achieve. It certainly doesn't happen on every attempt.
It may be the flute, but I have been able to make it happen with four different flutes so I am not so sure.
Then I am wondering whether it has anything to do with the air modulation at the Utaguchi ?
Kel §
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