Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2008-06-08 19:34:36

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Shakuhachi schools

Hi all!  Going down the good ol' traditional path now since my lesson with Nyokai...  I'm just looking for a wee bit of advice; you guys were all so awesome last time, I figured I'd give it another go before I pester Nyokai with this and beg for notation!  I've had a little look around the forum, and I'm not really seeing much about the schools of shakuhachi and their repertoirs.  I'm interested in learning some traditional pieces; is the best was to do this to try to work one's way through a particular school's repertoire, or should I mix and match?  I'd also love some ideas on where to actually find all of the pieces in mp3 with notation in pdf...  Is that a readily available resource (I've seen a few bits and bobs about, but nothing really complete), or is it something that I should really be paying for?
So far, I'm looking at the Fudaiji school as it contains two of the pieces I've already started to learn (choshi and kyorei) as included with Mr. Yung's starter pack that I got with my flute, and the repertoire is relatively small.  Is there somewhere to find the rest of the repertoire?

Thanks so much, guys.  If a similar question has already been posted, I apologise, but the forum's mahussive, so I might have missed it.

Thanks again,

James

Offline

 

#2 2008-06-08 20:13:46

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

hi James,
Nykai has a booklet for sale with the pieces he teaches.

Shakuhachi.com has a lot of offerings (sheet music with CDs).

Offline

 

#3 2008-06-08 21:28:33

madoherty
Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 366

Re: Shakuhachi schools

James,

You will also find some information on the schools on the International Shakuhachi Society's website: http://www.komuso.com/

I definitely would suggest asking your teacher as well.

Best wishes.

Offline

 

#4 2008-06-08 21:32:27

Noah
Member
Registered: 2007-11-24
Posts: 8

Re: Shakuhachi schools

I'd like to see a lot of this sort of information open-sourced. I know it's an esoteric field of study, but almost every established member on this forum has access a wealth of information stored in their heads. Information concerning notation, schools, song scores, etc., that otherwise exists nowhere else online.

As tech-savvy as I am, I can't find a single thorough free source available on how to read traditional Japanese-notated shakuhachi sheet music. Of course I can read the notes, but things like beat patterns and note-hold length I'm clueless on. I feel as though I've plateaued after playing the shakuhachi for about half a year now. I am sans-sensei and do not own a single instructional booklet. What I've learned I've done so from scraps I've pooled together online.

My two greatest resources have been websites like http://www.csf.ne.jp/~kodo/syakuhachiannai1.htm is the single best source of information I can find in this regard, but of course, it's all in Japanese! And the songs that are available (some even with .mp3 music accompaniment) come off as romanized with bar staff notation and hole placement pictures. Also, http://www.mejiro-japan.com/html/movie/ … _movie.htm offers instructional videos. But again, a Japanese resource.

Perhaps the greatest determent to the proliferation of this beautiful instrument is the lack of information about how to play it. I read a lot about excitement for its steady increase in popularity and interest, but I also see a lot of people who try and reach out for information be turned towards websites offering expensive and ancient instructional CD and books, and offers for lessons over the internet at a fee. It's a "You want to learn to play? Go here and pay 50 bucks" mentality, and I don't like it.

People need to make a living, and I understand that, but look at the guitar. There's an infinite amount of study guides, tablature, and scale sheets, but books and guides are still widely purchased. In fact, more information leads to an increase in interest in the instrument, which leads to more people would be predisposed to purchase guides and CD's.

Can anyone offer serious instruction by pooling together their own intellectual resources and post a few follow-along style youtube videos? Throw together some quick guides? Offer more classically notated song sheets online? I know many already have, and it's greatly appreciated. The shakuhachi search engine, or quick-tip pages like http://www.kotodama.net/shakuhachi/tips.html are a decent start, but not nearly comprehensive enough.

I know I sound bitter, but my desire to play is eclipsed by my lack of financial resources as a college student, and I'm frustrated. I'll be living in Japan for a year in a few months, and I'll be able to attend lessons on a regular basis (I hope), but until then I want so much to improve, and I'm sure many other beginners would benefit from work done in this regard.

Offline

 

#5 2008-06-08 21:46:11

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

i understand where you come from,
But I spend money & time to learn what I learned:-) I can't share it for free.
I am student too:-) Big loanes to pay

Offline

 

#6 2008-06-08 22:18:30

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah, your poor student plight is completely understandable, but you're asking a lot. The experts here are the forum need only a few minutes a day to respond to a question, whereas making a decent page of sheet music is rather time consuming. Then there's the question of which school the spirit of the piece is being recorded. Though I know very little about the guitar, I'm guessing there's a single standard notation making it far easier for someone to grab self-teaching materials from various sources. I'm also under the impression that guitar is one of the easier instruments to learn, whereas shakuhachi is one of the most difficult.

On the other hand, I'm with you about wanting a pool of public domain notation. I recently learned Bosatsu, a piece written by Taniguchi Yoshinobu. My teacher, being a student of him, felt ethically right to sent me the sheet music from one of Taniguchi's notation books. He warned me, however, that the notation for this particular piece was abysmal. He was right, too! Since I really wanted to learn the piece, I had no choice but to carefully listen and write the notation down on my own. Then my teacher and I went through it and I'm aiming towards presenting Taniguchi with a final draft which he'll hopefully okay for the public domain. (If not, I've at least learned the piece and have a copy of the notation for my own reference.)

Doing something like this for a mass of pieces is something I'd really like to do, but I don't want to step of anyone's toes by cutting out their ability to earn a few bucks on a well-presented book of notation.

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

Offline

 

#7 2008-06-08 22:24:28

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah wrote:

Perhaps the greatest determent to the proliferation of this beautiful instrument is the lack of information about how to play it. I read a lot about excitement for its steady increase in popularity and interest, but I also see a lot of people who try and reach out for information be turned towards websites offering expensive and ancient instructional CD and books, and offers for lessons over the internet at a fee. It's a "You want to learn to play? Go here and pay 50 bucks" mentality, and I don't like it.

People need to make a living, and I understand that, but look at the guitar. There's an infinite amount of study guides, tablature, and scale sheets, but books and guides are still widely purchased. In fact, more information leads to an increase in interest in the instrument, which leads to more people would be predisposed to purchase guides and CD's.

Hi Noah,

There are a lot of reasons for this situation. Comparison to guitar is not appropriate because while there are millions of guitar players in the West there are only perhaps dozens of qualified shakuhachi teachers. Eventually one of them may invest a lot of time and effort into putting up free instructional materials but I wouldn't hold my breath. I think Bruce Heubner has a Kinko instructional video, I don't know how much that costs but maybe you should check into that. But if he's gone to the expense of producing it, it's unreasonable to expect him to give it away for free.

The other inaccuracy comparing it to guitar is that guitar is much easier to play and much easier to teach oneself from instructional materials.

Knowledge is something that needs to be respected and if you want people to give you their knowledge you should expect to compensate them for it. If you take lessons with a qualified teacher you will be paying for only a tiny portion of the knowledge you receive. Any good teacher gives you much more than your money's worth. I studied with James Nyoraku and the amount I paid him is miniscule compared to what he gave me. That's why I buy him a steak every time I see him. The flip side of this is that for the teacher to gain his or her knowledge takes a lot of financial resources and time. What the student pays them only slightly defrays the original expense. It's symbolic. Nobody is getting rich off of teaching shakuhachi.

You say you're a college student. Do you pay for those courses? Why should shakuhachi lessons be any different than the other knowledge you are willing to pay for? On the other hand if you are on a full scholarship, you're already getting a lot of free knowledge and you can afford a few lessons from somebody who is not on tenure at a university.

Then there's the final point which is whether or not it's even possible to learn this particular instrument without a teacher. Most people think not.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#8 2008-06-08 22:53:58

Noah
Member
Registered: 2007-11-24
Posts: 8

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Zakarius wrote:

The experts here are the forum need only a few minutes a day to respond to a question, whereas making a decent page of sheet music is rather time consuming. Then there's the question of which school the spirit of the piece is being recorded. Though I know very little about the guitar, I'm guessing there's a single standard notation making it far easier for someone to grab self-teaching materials from various sources.

As someone who has never even come close to attempting to write a piece of sheet music, I have no idea how time consuming it may or may not be, so thanks for opening my eyes a bit. Most of the sheet music I've seen seems like it's meant to be played only if you have a thorough understanding of the song it's written for, but that's also because the notation appears so haphazard and far less complex than traditional western scores (again, this is probably just a misunderstanding on my part attributed to my lack of knowledge concerning specific school notation). A sort of listen-and-play along thing.

Zakarius wrote:

On the other hand, I'm with you about wanting a pool of public domain notation. I recently learned Bosatsu, a piece written by Taniguchi Yoshinobu. My teacher, being a student of him, felt ethically right to sent me the sheet music from one of Taniguchi's notation books. He warned me, however, that the notation for this particular piece was abysmal. He was right, too! Since I really wanted to learn the piece, I had no choice but to carefully listen and write the notation down on my own.

Just what is the rule of thumb for posting piece notation online? Are the honkyoku copyrighted? Would it be intellectually dishonest to publish them online? What about their adaptations by various artists? Or an original iteration? What would prevent someone from playing a song by a shakuhachi artist, post the video of themselves doing so online, and then post the score along with it? This seems to be par for the course with tens of thousands of people who do that exact thing on youtube to copyrighted material of both pop and classical artists.

Tairaku wrote:

Knowledge is something that needs to be respected and if you want people to give you their knowledge you should expect to compensate them for it.

You're giving me knowledge right now. Where is the link to your paypal account? Your address so that I might send you a check?

Tairaku wrote:

If you take lessons with a qualified teacher you will be paying for only a tiny portion of the knowledge you receive. Any good teacher gives you much more than your money's worth. I studied with James Nyoraku and the amount I paid him is miniscule compared to what he gave me. That's why I buy him a steak every time I see him. The flip side of this is that for the teacher to gain his or her knowledge takes a lot of financial resources and time. What the student pays them only slightly defrays the original expense. It's symbolic. Nobody is getting rich off of teaching shakuhachi.

Debating the respective philosophical value of the teacher/student relationship wasn't the point of my admittedly self-centered gripe. I know I'm asking, in essence, for something for nothing. But that's what the open source movement is about. It's about people doing what they love for the simple self-satisfaction that they would receive from those who use their knowledge to better themselves.

Tairaku wrote:

You say you're a college student. Do you pay for those courses? Why should shakuhachi lessons be any different than the other knowledge you are willing to pay for? On the other hand if you are on a full scholarship, you're already getting a lot of free knowledge and you can afford a few lessons from somebody who is not on tenure at a university.

When I attend college I learn from those who have made a livelihood built around knowledge and teaching. Teachers are sacrificing the greater part of the day doing what they do and I respect the hundreds of hours I'm asking them to sacrifice for me. But asking the same from the forum-goers here is blowing the comparison vastly out of proportion. A 30 minute lesson that someone plays in front of the webcam, or a detailed post here and there on websites about exactly how to read a particular type of notation and provide some shakuhachi sheet music isn't asking the same.

I mean, this argument is similar to the whole Microsoft vs. the open source movement, so lets leave that discussion to the leagues of coders already embroiled in it.

All I'm looking for a little more information from those with the will and capacity to share what they know about how to play. Also, I apologize preemptively for any formatting errors. I'm new to posting here!

Last edited by Noah (2008-06-08 22:56:49)

Offline

 

#9 2008-06-08 22:59:59

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah wrote:

When I attend college I learn from those who have made a livelihood built around knowledge and teaching. Teachers are sacrificing the greater part of the day doing what they do and I respect the hundreds of hours I'm asking them to sacrifice for me. But asking the same from the forum-goers here is blowing the comparison vastly out of proportion. A 30 minute lesson that someone plays in front of the webcam, or a detailed post here and there on websites about exactly how to read a particular type of notation and provide some shakuhachi sheet music isn't asking the same.

!

Anything of value you would get about learning the shakuhachi would also come from professionals who have made the same sacrifices your professors have made. I don't get the comparison. There's no such thing as "Shakuhachi for Dummies" it's all very detailed stuff.

In most cases posting notation has copyright issues attached to it. The honkyoku themselves are in the public domain but the calligraphy belongs to the artist. If you wanted to make your own notation of honkyoku and post it that would be OK. But first you'd have to learn shakuhachi, honkyoku and calligraphy.

Noah wrote:

Debating the respective philosophical value of the teacher/student relationship wasn't the point of my admittedly self-centered gripe. I know I'm asking, in essence, for something for nothing. But that's what the open source movement is about. It's about people doing what they love for the simple self-satisfaction that they would receive from those who use their knowledge to better themselves.

Most of the shakuhachi teachers I know are highly skilled professionals in other areas who have better things to do than teach shakuhachi for a fairly small fee. Even if they charge $50 for a lesson they are still doing it out of love because they can more easily make $50 another way. In my own case I teach to spread the knowledge and help people and I charge a nominal fee because my teacher asked me to. The other reason to charge is that people do not value things they get for free. When they pay for lessons they take study more seriously.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#10 2008-06-08 23:27:51

Noah
Member
Registered: 2007-11-24
Posts: 8

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Tairaku wrote:

Anything of value you would get about learning the shakuhachi would also come from professionals who have made the same sacrifices your professors have made. I don't get the comparison. There's no such thing as "Shakuhachi for Dummies" it's all very detailed stuff.

I'm not asking people to do things they don't want to, obviously. If some shakuhachi players don't want to teach or share their knowledge for free, that's their prerogative and that is just awesome. I'm directing my request towards those who might be inclined to do what I'm asking of them for free.

Tairaku wrote:

If you wanted to make your own notation of honkyoku and post it that would be OK. But first you'd have to learn shakuhachi, honkyoku and calligraphy.

There are several great free shakuhachi notation fonts available for the PC (a great initiative by the exact type of people I was addressing in my initial request for additional services), so calligraphy isn't an issue. Also, the people who own copies of honkyoku already possess the shakuhachi knowledge necessary to read the score and type it up and post it online, so that's taken care of. The only thing remaining is the selfless desire to help people who want to share their passion.

I mean, there are a limited number of honkyoku, right? How long would it take to type one up and post it online? A half hour? Perhaps with the time you spent participating in this dialog, we could already have a fraction of the entire honkyoku collection in public domain! Imagine!

Tairaku wrote:

The other reason to charge is that people do not value things they get for free. When they pay for lessons they take study more seriously.

Heh, this must be the philosophy driving Scientology.

Offline

 

#11 2008-06-09 00:28:52

benjo toto
Member
From: Greyhound Station, 7th & Main
Registered: 2007-05-03
Posts: 9
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

At Tioletpaper Ryu Shakuhachi Dojo in Greyhound Bus Station men's room we practice True Open Source shakuhachi teaching.

We hand out rolls and rolls of thin, perforated paper that Master Toto generously reams to us from his solitary corner stall. It is a lonely but happy life for Master and deshi. Many original scores come out that way.

It will please you that after lesson  we hoist our bottles of MD 20/20 into the air and cheer "Kampai!"

Then we take you out to back alley before we roll you for all the cash in your wallet.

<gassho>

--Manny C., Head Deshi


Tee-Hee is the highest note attainable in the Toilet Paper Shakuhachi Ryu - Master Toto Benjo

Offline

 

#12 2008-06-09 01:12:43

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah wrote:

I mean, there are a limited number of honkyoku, right? How long would it take to type one up and post it online? A half hour? Perhaps with the time you spent participating in this dialog, we could already have a fraction of the entire honkyoku collection in public domain! Imagine!

Noah, there are ca. 150 honkyoku out there.... all written in different notation styles from different schools. The notation fonts available is very limited and would never be able to write what is necessary to do a good job re-typing these pieces. You'd have to read Japanese to translate the interpretation, which is written on the notation into English (I guess you don't read Japanese, so someone has to do that translation for you). You are asking for a lifetime of work - not half an hour!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

Offline

 

#13 2008-06-09 01:57:38

Noah
Member
Registered: 2007-11-24
Posts: 8

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Kiku Day wrote:

Noah, there are ca. 150 honkyoku out there.... all written in different notation styles from different schools. The notation fonts available is very limited and would never be able to write what is necessary to do a good job re-typing these pieces. You'd have to read Japanese to translate the interpretation, which is written on the notation into English (I guess you don't read Japanese, so someone has to do that translation for you). You are asking for a lifetime of work - not half an hour!

Goodness! Forgive my ignorance. But of course I wasn't saying it would take a half an hour to type up every honkyoku iteration in every school's native notation schema, but rather one honkyoku in a single school's notation. The notation that someone possesses a hard copy of, preferably, would be used so that translation or interpretation wouldn't be necessary.

But that was just a single example, and one I wouldn't personally have any use for. I am decades away from the skill required to play a honkyoku piece.

To reiterate, all I'm really looking for is to encourage more people to make quick little play-along videos, or type up a quick how-to on how to read a school's notation.

That doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the resources already provided to me. I've said I was and if I need to reiterate that fact, than allow me to, because I am very thankful! I've learned a lot from all of you. And Tairaku, I even read The Time Traveler's Wife as per your suggestion some months ago!

And benjo toto, I'm not sure what to make of your contribution. If it's some sort of veiled attempt at satire then I'm afraid it's lost on me.

Edit: Oh, also, Kiko, there was a great article in April's ESS Newsletter about composing for the shakuhachi. It was enlightening about just how difficult it can be to compose and write shakuhachi music! Perhaps years and years from now, when shakuhachi players from around the world are blowing as one, there will be time and resources available to give the gift of universal honkyoku in all its wonderful forms to everyone. But until then, baby steps... baby steps... And keep up the good work with the newsletter!

Last edited by Noah (2008-06-09 02:16:42)

Offline

 

#14 2008-06-09 02:36:18

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Re: Shakuhachi schools

WOW!!  I just woke up and it looks like I started a feud!  lol.  I must say thanks to everyone for the first few answers (madoherty and noah, cheers), I've been on the kumoso site; that's where I've found most of the information I have gleened so far.  From your posts I gather that there really is no such free resource.  My primary instrument is actually electric guitar (sorry, lol), and I must agree that it is the availability of resources that makes it easy for one to teach themselves to quite a high level without the need for lessons.  I must disagree with the mentality that guitar is an easier instrument to play than shakuhachi, though.  True, you can hold down a fretted note, and provided you hold it down firmly and in the correct location behind a fret, then an appropraitely clear and perfectly in tune note will sound.  But now try an do that 28 times in a second and include numerous pitch bends, wammy effects, foot pedal clicks, double-stops etc. all at this blistering speed, and you will soon find your fingers to be bloodied and raw...  Do this for 12 hours a day, and maybe in five or six years (I've been playing for 9) you can hope to play like your favourite players.  I must say that it appears to me that once one has mastered embouchure, fingering has little or no difficulty in shakuhachi, so the amount of coordination requruired to master the instrument, to me at least, seems less.
I'm certainly not saying that shakuhachi is an easy instrument to learn, and I am agreeing that the guitar is easier to learn by oneself due to the availability of resources, but I simply cannot fathom anyone calling the guitar an easy instrument to master.  LOL, rant over!

I've got an idea.  How about all the pros who have hard copies of honkyoku pieces all write down their favourite pieces, then someone could look at the list of all those pieces and make a task list for each pro of maybe one or two pieces to scan and post an mp3 of - even a simple pc mic recording played themselves.  It'd be a good way to practice (by recording a complete to perfection piece), and could also create this elusive resource.  There are many useful sites out there that tell us how to make sounds, but none that provide an eclectic selection of traditional pieces to study.  Many of us without massive funding find this inhibits our learning.  Hmmm, I've just realised that both my questions on this forum thus far have been money-related.  It would be a great shame if the shakuhachi world I am so keen to explore turns out to be elitist and inaccessible.

Can you guys let me know if you think that was a good idea, then maybe we could make it happen.  My girlfriend is currently looking for a topic to build a website for (she's a programmer and needs to extend her portfolio), and a media site such as the one I am suggesting would actually be ideal for her.  I'm also an artist (real-world, and web) in addition to my science-teaching, so we could actually get quite a nice resource here if we all work together.  Even a forum section would be great, as the current practice section is the most neglected area of the forum, yet perhaps the most important aspect of learning to play.

I apologise for my huge, inane rant, and I expect some flaming for the guitar bit... but I hope I made some good points in there somewhere...  Don't judge me too harshly, I'm here to learn shakuhachi!  Thanks everyone!

James

Offline

 

#15 2008-06-09 03:14:43

Noah
Member
Registered: 2007-11-24
Posts: 8

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Thanks for articulating so well what I've been struggling to do, Ninjabathy! I feel the same way, especially with your thoughts on collaboration and forum use.

Unfortunately my main field of study is creative writing, so I'm not sure how much help I'd be to any sort of communal effort on the proliferation of shakuhachi instructional use, but I would definitely help in any way, shape, or form.

Perhaps I could weave a tale of desire and intrigue about a man and his shakuhachi. Provocative!

Offline

 

#16 2008-06-09 03:18:42

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Shakuhachi schools

I've only been playing for a couple of years, but I do calligraphy (even more amateur than my shakuhachi playing) and would be interested in offering a helping hand if someone takes up the project.

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

Offline

 

#17 2008-06-09 03:49:36

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Thanks, Noah.  The more people that feel the same way, the more likely a resource will be to arise from the depths.  I think that the majority of people here will be hiding some invaluable little nuggets of information, so it's up to you and me to persuade them there's something in it for them, so that we can get the gems!  I think a massive resource with free stuff for all for just the price of a scan and pressing the rec button during a session should be the necessary lure!  lol.  I won't be contributing, however, because I'm new and crap, and I'm sure Perry wouldn't like me breaking his copyrights and posting his starter pack here.  So I won't.  lol.

I'll just get the ball rolling a little bit with some common sites that I've found and am using at the moment...  (I'm sure you already know them all, but if we all share what we have, we could all benefit - wow, it's just like communism!)

http://nyokai.com/tips/ - a lot of great info here, including recommended starter pieces and more
http://www.shakuhachi.cz/en_rec.html  - some explanations of honkyoku and a few examples
http://www.japanshakuhachi.com/gettingstarted.html  - nice pics of embouchure and some helpful scale-charts
http://www.komuso.com/schools/  - info on the repertoires of the various schools of shakuhachi
http://www.csf.ne.jp/~kodo/syakuhachiannai1.htm  - simple tunes with western notation to get newbies started
http://www.mejiro-japan.com/html/movie/ … _movie.htm  - English-subtitled basic/short instructional vids
http://www.kotodama.net/shakuhachi/tips.html  - a bit like Nyokai's site in terms of content, but for some reason organised by date...
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/articles.html  - a nice little site containing lots of nice linkies for tips on all sorts (playing and making)
http://www.bamboo-in.com/shop/honkyoku.htm  - limited resource with mp3s and notation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakuhachi  - a few nice linkies again, and some history too...

Come on, guys and girls (where are the girls?!?!), let's get this baby off the ground.  I'm sure loads of people have tried to do this before (I've seen lots of blanked questions like this with replies such as "anyone?" and "please?".  It's our job to make things easy for lazy people!  It's the western way!  Be true to your roots, and plagiarise!

Thanks,

James

Offline

 

#19 2008-06-09 04:39:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

You guys are cute. lol

Re: guitar vs. shakuhachi. Guitar is easier. Much easier. Plenty of people reach pro level on guitar after playing for a few years, that never happens on shakuhachi. I play both instruments so I feel confident in saying this.

The idea that the shakuhachi world is elitist because master players don't post materials that don't exist is a little nebulous. In fact as demonstrated by the links you posted there have been plenty of people posting a lot of information for free use by anybody on the subject. This forum is another example. Besides that most of the pro players and many amateurs have myspace and other websites with music to listen for free.

The reason people don't post free shakuhachi lessons is because the nature of shakuhachi learning is interactive. Without feedback from the teacher you can't learn much or well.

But who knows maybe someone will come along with a teaching method for youtube and everybody will be able to learn.

This reminds me of the time Horst sent John Singer an email asking if he could learn all 36 Kinko honkyoku in 2 lessons. But Horst did offer to pay with beer and sausage.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#20 2008-06-09 05:29:19

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Lol.  A lot of girls say that, and you're cute too, Tairaku (if a teeny bit patronising, I know you're king of the forum and everything, but cute?  Really...)  I don't pretend to be a master shakuhachist, and am the first to admit that I have a vast amount to learn, however, I am sticking to my guns on the whole guitar is easy thing...  I am certain that the reason there are pros after just a few years is several...  The first is that not all guitar-based music is technically demanding (I site Blink-182 as an example...); these guys are professional, yet they are absolute gobshyte (I hope that's OK here, pls don't ban, lol).  The second reason is that so many people learn the thing that those with a natural gift will display it quickly.  I come from a very musical family and am fortunate to have been able to pick-up-and-play the shakuhachi to a degree; even play some (very simple) honkyoku convincingly.  It's a good feeling.  It is my opinion, however, that the shakuhachi's repertoire encourages a classical style of learning if one is to fully exploit the instrument, and it is not possible to delve into this world easily; ask a random person in the street what a shakuachi is, and they'll say "a what?", ask someone what a guitar is, and they'll say, "which would you like me to draw, a Les Paul or a Strat, and how many frets, 21, 22, or 24 was on this guitar?".  They'll know how many strings there are, and maybe they can even play a chord or two.  They might even be quite good.  That's not because the guitar is easier, it's because it's more readily available to learn.  That's just my opinion (but it is right, you understand tongue).

There are also a myriad of magazines etc that come out every month or even week for guitar, the chances are containing one or two of your favourite tunes, on CD, and tabbed for ease of learning (yep, guitarists don't even need to know western staff-based notation..how lazy).  My point is, we will all happily sit here talking about blowing a nice honky ro (which is D on a 1.8, I'm sure you're aware), but a guitarist can just say fret 5 on the bottom string.  It's more accessible.  The guitarist doesn't need to know he's playing a D, just that the note sounds the same as the song he's trying to play.  He/She doesn't even need to worry about which string the note's on; if it's in key, they may call it "improvisation".  lol.  It's not at all the same with classical/flamenco guitar, and it's certainly not the same if you're trying to play along with Yngwie Malmsteen to the note... (that takes time, and formal classical knowledge of modes, scales and the like).

I'm going on for far too long, so to summarise, the guitar is a very versatile instrument.  It is very easy to play Mary had a Little Lamb on...  Much easier within the first hour of picking up than playing "Marii san no hitsuji", because it's easier to pluck a note than blow a note.  But to become expert?  I only know of three or four in the world.  Shakuachi is more like the violin to me (I play that, too); all of the material is classical, so you have to go to the library, learn how to read sheet music (my Dad taught me, he was a professional violinist before he became a music teacher), and join an orchestra if you want to make the most of it; it's therefore harder to get into than the guitar, and harder to find resources to learn from, therefore harder to learn; it is also more difficult to pick up and produce an in-tune melody than guitar, but once you have the skill, because of it's classical nature, playing the violin is restrictive when compared to the electric guitar (acoustic is equally restrictive).  I believe this will be true of the shakuhachi.

I also realise that innovation is not the purpose of shakuhachi, but perfect and calm.  That is why I want to learn it; to be able to play a perfect honkyoku, with every note and nuance perfect.  A near impossible feat for a mere mortal that will take years of practice, just like playing along with good old Steve Vai on the guitar.  One is not easier than the other; there are just different paths to perfection, a state that is all but possible on any instrument.

The thing is though, if I want to play like Steve Vai, I can nick his tracks off bittorrent, and get some tabs for it while I'm there.  I can then sit in my room for 10 years playing 16 hours a day, mastering every technique along the way, until I can finally emerge, red-faced, dripping in sweat, skin hanging from the fingernails, hanging from veins hanging from the hardened stubs that I once called "fingers", and say, "I can like Steve Vai".  I could have come out a little earlier and said, "I can play the guitar" after Mary has a Little Lamb, but I didn't feel ready to turn pro with that... some people (again Blink-182, I'm looking at you) do.  This is sad.

I will speak no more of guitar vs shakuhachi.  People may now think what they like...

Back to why I'm here.  Is there anywhere I can find the repertoire for Fudaiji shakuhachi, so that I may sit in my room and learn it, and emerge sweaty in 10 years time and say "I can play shakuhachi", or am I going to be forced to beg from an instructor to give me some scans when I'm ready, and not before....  grrrrrreeerrrrrr

Tairaku, have you got the stuff?  If you email it to me, there's beer and a sausage in it for ya!

Cheers (I hope I didn't kill my thread with that, I really do want answers!),

James

Offline

 

#21 2008-06-09 05:34:54

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Re: Shakuhachi schools

BTW, thanks to Noah for the links!  And Tairaku, I do appreciate this place and the free stuff that is out there... I'm just greedy and want it all now!  I wonder if I should start a magazine... Total Shakuhachi... And interview all the top players... Tairaku can have a guitar-bashing column as long as he gives up some knowledge (1/4 of a honkyoku with multi-angle video per 5 min guitar bash, please) ... lol

Offline

 

#22 2008-06-09 09:11:39

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah wrote:

Perhaps years and years from now, when shakuhachi players from around the world are blowing as one, there will be time and resources available to give the gift of universal honkyoku in all its wonderful forms to everyone. But until then, baby steps... baby steps... And keep up the good work with the newsletter!

A day (or year) that will live in infamy....

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#23 2008-06-09 09:37:43

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Noah and Ninjabathy, sounds like you just talked yourselves into an organizational position.  Good luck with it!  Everybody here has private e-mail.  Start knocking on doors for the cause.  Who knows.  You might just get what you're after (it wouldn't be the first time people have been individually approached on this forum)...or you might also come to understand a different take on why this type of information isn't centralized and plentiful and exactly what you're after (some alluded to it in this thread) and why there is a hesitancy to share in the way you would like.  At any rate, good luck with the journey should you accept the task.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

Offline

 

#24 2008-06-09 09:42:59

Ninjabathy
Member
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 31

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Hey everyone, thanks for all your input!  I'm going to try to ask just one last time to see if I can get a "yes" before I assume that I'm going to have to beg Nyokai for some resources (with money as an incentive)... So here's a nice simple question...  Can I please have the fudaiji school repertoire in notation and mp3?  I'd really really like it for freeeeee...

*Using the power of my mind, I predict the answer will be something beginning with a letter n....  I can see it now, the next post contains a two-letter word, beginning with n, and I think ending in o.....  Can anyone guess what the answer to my question is? (That bit's to screw with your minds so you can't decide what you should say next MUWAHAHA)*

Offline

 

#25 2008-06-09 10:55:02

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shakuhachi schools

Ninjabathy wrote:

Hey everyone, thanks for all your input!  I'm going to try to ask just one last time to see if I can get a "yes" before I assume that I'm going to have to beg Nyokai for some resources (with money as an incentive)... So here's a nice simple question...  Can I please have the fudaiji school repertoire in notation and mp3?  I'd really really like it for freeeeee...

*Using the power of my mind, I predict the answer will be something beginning with a letter n....  I can see it now, the next post contains a two-letter word, beginning with n, and I think ending in o.....  Can anyone guess what the answer to my question is? (That bit's to screw with your minds so you can't decide what you should say next MUWAHAHA)*

no


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google