Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2006-03-22 13:01:26

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

I find myself in posession of a long, fat, non-root-end pole of bamboo.  It has a taper that, depending on how you stand the pole up, might be called "reverse".  The inner diameter runs from approx 36 mm to approx 41 mm.  The wall thickness runs from approx 5 mm to approx 6 mm in the same direction.  I plan to turn it into a jinashi flute in the range 3.0 to 3.3.   (Haven't decided, and see question 2, below.)

This is a cheap piece of stock, so I'm not going to cry if it doesn't work out, but I have a couple of questions in my mind that maybe someone here can help with...

1) Would it make more sense, due to the taper, to orient the wider end at the top?  (I have this option because it's non-root stock.)  Is this ever done?  Externally, I don't think this would look quite as good and I'd only do this if it was -likely- to make tuning easier (e.g. kan register).

2) Is there a rationale to where to cut the bottom end of a non-root flute?  What I mean is, I'll obviously put the blowing edge just below a node at top (i.e. the usual configuration), but are there acoustic or tuning reasons to cut the bottom of the flute at a particular distance from the lowermost node?  Or is final length generally quite flexible in a non-root situation?   (keeping finger holes away from nodes, of course...)

Thanks!

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

Offline

 

#2 2006-03-22 14:15:04

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Hmmm...it seems to me that all you can really do is make the flute according to how it's grown. Nodes always face up: I've tried making a flute out of an "upside-down" piece, and it worked, but not well. It didn't look right, either. I really did it to work on the utaguchi, which worked better at the thicker end. But I wouldn't reccomend it.

A far as the bottom goes...it doesn't seem like there are really any hard and fast rules about it. When I made my first Tonkin flutes, I didn't know much about looking specifically for pieces that would fit within the different shaku lengths, so I made some flutes that were 2.3-4, 2.1-2, 1.7-8, etc. Only my newer rootends are closer to what size thay should be, but they're off a bit, too. It seems to me that the only rule (for timber flutes) is that you look at where you want the utaguchi, then measure down from there. Try to keep as close to the bottom, thicker stock as possible, but you don't have to cut it in any particular place, as far as nodes go. You're going for the proper length here. It does seem to work well if you cut just an inch or two below the bottom node, then maybe bind it underneath the node or something. That's how I see Perry do it on his timber and black bamboo flutes.

I made a timber flute 2 years ago, and it was near a rootend, probably about 2 nodes up from the root, and it made for an excellent flute with amazing ro. Too bad I messed the thing up. If it had been in tune, it would've been a really great honkyoko flute. Oh well. I'm going to try again in the next week or two, I think. Let us know how yours turns out, and I'll report on mine, too.

Good luck to you!

-Eddie


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

Offline

 

#3 2006-03-22 14:27:27

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Darren,
Only thing comes to me is to check how far your fingers will reach still giving you some comfortable movement and control, even skewing the holes off centre.
With an experiment I am not too concerned about the look myself.
Also, consider keeping as much of the upper node as possible, making the hole opening just beneath the blow edge, because a wide opening will make it more difficult to seal with your face. It will be easier to open it further than to close it later.

Kel     §


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#4 2006-03-22 15:14:55

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

When you say "hole", do you mean the Utaguchi (the blowing edge), or the ikegashi (breath return) that you blow into?

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

Offline

 

#5 2006-03-22 20:55:53

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

the ikegashi ..... I have found it tricky to seal a large opening.

Kel    §


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#6 2006-03-23 00:39:19

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

One other thought, don't open the lower node too quickly or you may have trouble getting a good Kan register.

Kel    §


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#7 2006-03-23 13:46:14

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Eddie and Kel, thanks for the suggestions...  I've definitely decided against the "upside down" trick and just live with the wrong taper, but I'll enlarge the node openings gradually.  Now, to find a long auger bit and/or long rasps/files...  ;-)

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

Offline

 

#8 2006-03-23 16:17:58

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Darren, I have these small Chinese curved wood files inserted into the end of a copper tube that can reach way down into teh culm.

Kel   §


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#9 2006-03-23 18:17:34

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Great idea about the tubing.  Beats my long-steel-rod-with-a-duct-taped-rasp approach.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

Offline

 

#10 2006-03-23 18:46:54

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

Kel, that's a GREAT idea. I could take some of my files, or my sandpaper rounds, and slide them into a copper, or whatever, really, tube, and use that. I could even put a small upholstery nail through it, just to hold it in place. Good thinking, man. Oh, you could also use a copper collar at the end of a wood dowel, so you're filing with wood in your hands, if you're not into holding metal.

Darren...make sure to coat the inside when you get all done, too, or you'll probably end up with splitting, like I did. I'm also going to start binding in 2-3 places, even though I personally dislike binding.

Something I've found that works pretty well is this claw-thing I bought at a 99cent store: you've probably seen them, they're about 12-24" long, made of tightly wound coil spring, with a plunger on one end, and four little flexible metal "prongs" that come out the other. Press down on the plunger, and these little hands come out, grabbing a small sounge, or piece of paper towel...whatever. It's good for getting to those nooks and crannies. It's just not stiff enough for sandpaper.

You could also use the above tube technique, and slide round-handled brushes into it, to really get into tight spots.

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

Offline

 

#11 2006-03-27 23:41:04

johnstrr
Member
Registered: 2006-03-27
Posts: 24

Re: Questions about making a fat, non-root-end hocchiku

I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt...  but while playing around with making flutes as cheaply as possible I came up with a  pretty decent bore sanding technique. After boring out the nodes with a 1/2" boring bit I stab a round orbital sanding pad, the kind that velcroes on the sander, on the end of the bit and drive it in with the drill.  The centripital force causes the sand paper to expand to the bore dimension and stays on the bit pretty good without any adherent, so it's quick to change out a new pad.


In La'kech

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google