Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

I would not say ban on Shakuhachi playing itself but more BAN on the Komuso activity (Being a Komuso and walk around Japan being a possible spy or informant).

In looking at the Komuso its always important to look at schools that were banned or persecuted during the Meiji restoration like the Shugendo (Yamabushi).

The Yamabushi were prevented from existing and travelling around but their practices were still kept at many of their head temples by resident monks or Yamabushi that became resident monks at the time.

I think it si safe to assume that the Komuso thing was a bit like this as well.

Gishin wrote:

I would not say ban on Shakuhachi playing itself but more BAN on the Komuso activity (Being a Komuso and walk around Japan being a possible spy or informant).

Indeed, that is what I thought. And the fact that th Fuke shu was abolished. To play the shakuhachi as a hoki was banned too, by the way... but I had never heard that actual  shakuhachi playing was banned.

edosan wrote:

I have heard that several times along the way.
The most authoritative source was at the WSF '98 in Boulder at a lecture on the history of the shakuhachi by one of (perhaps THE) the leading scholars on the subject at the time (unfortunately, I don't recall his name, but I'm pretty sure I can come up with it if you wish).

That would be nice. There are scholars such as Tukitani Tuneko, Kamisango Yuko, Yamaguti Osamu, Seyama Toru and Simura Satosi - just to be a little memory aid.

edosan wrote:

I also think it's mentioned in a monograph, "Shakuhachi Zen, The Fukeshu and Komuso" by James Sanford (Monumenta Nipponica. Vol. 32, No. 4, 1977).

I just skimmed through it, but couldn't see it. Perhaps I have to look more carefully.
Thanks guys!

Tairaku wrote:

I have been told (don't know how accurate the source is) that it was during this time that a lot of the original pieces were lost and the efforts of Taizan were reconstructive in nature. Therefore Myoan music is not really a continuous line and some of the tunes are new compositions.

This would not surprise me at all tkaing in consideration Martial-arts and various Buddhist schools in Japan. If teacher or real practittioners ceased to exist the real transmission somehow will get lost even if books and all kinds of other documents still exist. Shakuhachi to me is just like a martial art. You could have all the books you want or DVDs Cds etc but in the end you still need a teacher to directly transmit you the finer points. So all the books cds etc in the end are just helpers for people that already have a teacher.

Kiku Day wrote:

edosan wrote:

I have heard that several times along the way.
The most authoritative source was at the WSF '98 in Boulder at a lecture on the history of the shakuhachi by one of (perhaps THE) the leading scholars on the subject at the time (unfortunately, I don't recall his name, but I'm pretty sure I can come up with it if you wish).

That would be nice. There are scholars such as Tukitani Tuneko, Kamisango Yuko, Yamaguti Osamu, Seyama Toru and Simura Satosi - just to be a little memory aid.

Kiku, the shakuhachi scholar I heard at WSF '98 was KANDA Kayu.

eB

Justin wrote:

Hi Kiku
I have heard this a number of times. I also heard that it was due to Araki Kodo II that the ban was lifted, as he persuaded the government that the shakuhachi would be useful in secular music. Don't know any primary sources not exact details.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

I never heard or read that Shakuhachi playing was banned. Warrior class had been playing Shakuhachi for a while and continued to play after and before the ban. The whole ban was on the Fuke-Shu and their activities as travelling laymen or monks that had basicaly a pass that enabled them to go anywhere they wanted that was the actuall issue with their school. If there is anything that states clearly that the PLAYING of Shakuhachi itself was banned I would like to have the exact written source and check it for myself since to me this does not make much sense.

Tairaku wrote:

Seems unlikely because not every shakuhachi player in Japan would have even heard of the ban if it existed.

Exactly Ban was on the Fuke-Shu itself not the instrument or playing of it seems quite simple to me.

Seems all good but what would be the best thing to look at is the the exact words/wording of the Meiji governement on the Ban of the Fuke-Shu how was it to be enforced by who what when etc....   What teacher X or Historian Y says is nice but this could only their own interpretation based on records of shakuhachi teachers or enthusiasts. What we nedd here is solid info from Meiji archives.

So seeing the exact word used in the ban on the Fuke-Shu or exact details as to why and how Araki-Kodo could have been able to change any decision the Meiji government had made would be very interesting. The main reason why I ask is that I find it quite interesting that the Meiji government would take the time to listen to such an appeal when they had so much other stuff to care about than a Bamboo flute. So more details on how and why Araki Kodo was able to get to key people in order to change or adjust the original ban will not only clarify this but set the record straight. Not having those details only puts this story in the realm of Shakuhachi folklore.

lowonthetotem wrote:

I am not finding much that is actually digitized to the web, but this would be the place to look if anyone is in Tokyo.  The holding that would be particularly pertinent would be Dajo Ruiten.

http://www.archives.go.jp/english/ourho … l_101.html

Surely looks like some of the stuff in which info could be found on bans rules etc.

I found something new regarding the prohibition on shakuhachi playing:
In Takahashi Tone's PhD thesis, 'Tozan-ryu: An Innovation of the SHakuhachi Tradition from Fuke-shu to Secularism', he writes in a footnote, 'Yoshida Iccho and Araki Kodo obtained a special dispensation which allowed them to continue to play shakuhachi, not as a sacred instrument, but as a musical one' (Takahashi 1990:122). What is not 100% clear here is whether they got dispensation to play secular music... but that doesn't make sense as the Fuke sect was abolished when they got this dispensation.
Takahshi's thesis has a very comprehensive section on history. I can recommend it.

lowonthetotem wrote:

Has anyone read James H. Sanford's "Shakuhachi Zen. The Fukeshu and Komuso?"

Could anyone comment on Sanford's knowledge.  He has some pretty interesting things to say about the Komuso, the Shakuhachi, and some of the honkyoku.  I just wondered if anyone knew much about him.

If you consult Riley's dissertation, you will find that he criticizes Sanford for several inapt translations that alter the meanings of his Japanese source materials (see sections 3.5.3 and 3.5.4). Other parts of the article seem to be accepted as more reliable.

Thanks for the link to Lee's paper.  In that chapter it seems to suggest that a ban was placed on Shakuhachi playing in relation to begging for alms.

Hi Genki Desu
Kinko-ryu had been playing/teaching sankyoku (ensemble music) already for a long time during the Edo period. That is probably why Araki Kodo was in such a position to assure the government that shakuhachi was of great value for non-religious music. He was already a teacher of that established tradition.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-08-17 04:08:31)