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#1 2008-07-28 16:11:45

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

black bamboo shakuhachi

Does anyone know anything about these black bamboo shakuhachi that are proliferating on eBay?. The makers call themselves WhistleHead Shakuhachi.
Long ago I bought a black jinashi 1.6 (not from them) and I love it, but I also have gotten some crappy instruments through eBay.
Any info?.

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#2 2008-07-28 16:47:41

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Hi Pepe,

I don't know that particular maker but you're new to the forum so you might not have seen this topic:

http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=1846

The better makers allow you to audition the instrument before committing.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2008-07-28 18:38:06

madoherty
Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 366

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

jdanza wrote:

Does anyone know anything about these black bamboo shakuhachi that are proliferating on eBay?.

I have no info aside from an interesting visceral reaction I have to their pictures (and some others) of the bamboo tubes- particularly those wide-angle lens-looking shots of the root ends- oh man!  Makes me feel sick.  Doesn't look right to me.  My apologies to the makers/photographs reading here.

Last edited by madoherty (2008-07-28 19:00:10)

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#4 2008-07-28 18:48:51

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Thank you Tairaku. I have no problem recognizing "the real thing" but I also own and like to collect funky versions. As long as the mouthpiece and the tuning are right you can always find the particular strength and use for them. I was curious about these ones and asked about them in the community because they do look so nice.
  I did buy a very "nice" looking flute on eBay just recently (from Japan) and it turned out to be very crappy. I wrote to the seller and after some back and forth he refunded me more than half the price I paid, and in the meantime, with a file, sandpaper and some glue, I managed to turn it into a very playable and even likable funky thing. It's only suitable for playing softly but it does have the sweetest sound.
  Anyway... having played seaweed (or was it Ken?)... you should know all about funkiness smile
And thanks Michael... I'll take your instincts into account too.
If I give in to temptation and buy one I'll let you guys know the result smile
Thanks again and best regards...

pepe

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#5 2008-07-28 22:40:36

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

ken has some cool funky flutes. I had the chanse to visit him and play some his flutes.

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#6 2008-07-29 00:44:32

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Hello Geni

Is Ken the "WhistleHead" guy that posts the black bamboo flutes?.

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#7 2008-07-29 01:08:01

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

jdanza wrote:

Hello Geni

Is Ken the "WhistleHead" guy that posts the black bamboo flutes?.

Ken "Mujitsu" LaCosse, administrator and pharoah of this forum, click the link at the top of this page! wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2008-07-29 08:34:26

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Please do let us know how the flute is jdanza.  I've seen the ones you are talking about.  Some look nice, and others look "plain wrong", with root end's turned in the wrong direction, etc.  The maker also seems to put holes on nodes, which for some reason, also seems wrong to me (but that might just be me).   

One caveat. until recently the maker's little blurb used to say that it took one day to make the flute, so bear that in mind.  I don't know how long it takes to make a flute, but I tend to think that part of the "expensvinesss" of shakuhachi has, at least in part, something to do with the amount of time the craftsman spends on the flute, plus of course the bamboo itself, equipment, overhead, etc. 

At the risk of sucking up to Ken.   His flutes and the flute in question are not the same, as Brian said.  Totally different animals.  Ken's flutes are really something special.  Anyways, I have one of Ken's flutes (the one you see Brian playing on his 2.8 improv on youtube), and I find it both challenging and rewarding, and also aesthetically pleasing.  The thing is a real monster of a flute.  These taimu flutes have a kind of "body resonance" that you can feel (just as Ken says on the site).  It's a kind of a thick absorbing sound that is very satisying (to the player at the very least).  You simply can't compare Ken's taimu flutes to a 20 dollar black bamboo flute.

On the upside, if you do get one of these black bamboo ones and it sucks then you have not lost too much cash.  Monty also offers black bamboo flutes, as you know.   It Would be cool if he did root end ones (for extra cash of course).  Anyways, I'm rambling as usual.   Let us know how the flute is, I'm quite curious.  The maker does seem to be churning them out at a remarkable rate.

Last edited by Lorka (2008-07-29 08:43:04)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#9 2008-07-29 12:39:01

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Yes, Ken flutes look amazing. There is a power that comes through just looking at them and I can't wait t try them one of these days.
Monty is also an awesome craftsman, as is Perry (they are both wonderful people too) and I own flutes made by both of them that I love.
Still, as I mentioned in other threads, even though I have some amazing instruments, there's times when I'm drawn to my cheapo ones. They seem to have a very naive quality to them, a true "jinashi", completely unsophisticated sound  that I resonate with. My first Shakuhachi (bought in 1979) cost me $60, and I still play it a lot!.
And as you say, the price truly reflects the workmanship and the time being put into them, so nobody is getting ripped off.

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#10 2008-07-29 14:59:35

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Hi Pepe,

The seaweed shakuhachi appear occasionally, depending on what washes up ashore here! Another favorite during nice weather is the combination shakuhachi / BBQ coal poker! It lives in the backyard. I recommend using the root end only for poking.

Yeah, quality is always important to strive for, but it's also healthy to simultaneously let go of that attachment and appreciate a hollow stick with holes.

Cheers,

Ken

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#11 2008-07-29 16:35:58

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Yeah, quality is always important to strive for, but it's also healthy to simultaneously let go of that attachment and appreciate a hollow stick with holes.

I'd never get any action if my wife did not adhere to this philosophy.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#12 2008-07-29 16:47:37

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

What I see as really harsh about seeing 20$ black bamboo flutes on ebay is, I've been working very hard on a black bamboo flute and as it is nearing completeion, I've asked Ken Lacosse what it might be worth if I were to sell it(I'm not going to sell it). Turns out a black bamboo shakuhachi from a no-name maker is workth 20$ (acording to ebay). So if I divide how much time I spent making this flute by 20$, my time spent is worth about 33 cents an hour. I kinda hope (and this will sound horrible I know it) his flutes sound like crap.


-gravity sucks-

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#13 2008-07-29 17:53:59

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

lossafunk,
    I couldn't help but wonder-how does one experience a loss of funk. Was it a funkadectomy? Too many Lawrence Welk records?  Does it hurt?  Just wondering. To find out that I could possibly lose my funk is terrifying. I have so much invested in it. Sorry to hear about your loss.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#14 2008-07-29 17:57:55

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Jim Thompson wrote:

I couldn't help but wonder-how does one experience a loss of funk.

We just experienced a big loss of funk recently when James Brown passed away. hmm


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#15 2008-07-29 18:00:26

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Jim Thompson wrote:

lossafunk,
    I couldn't help but wonder-how does one experience a loss of funk. Was it a funkadectomy? Too many Lawrence Welk records?  Does it hurt?  Just wondering. To find out that I could possibly lose my funk is terrifying. I have so much invested in it. Sorry to hear about your loss.

actually, it's from an e-mail address of mine. I only use lossafunk 'cause lotsafunk was taken. It's all about slurring the word. It was a reference to my bass playing(or maybe my feet not sure which). But you are kinda correct, there has been a loss, when I found shakuhachi, I stopped playing bass. Your condolences is appreciated.


-gravity sucks-

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#16 2008-07-29 18:03:50

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

lossafunk wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

lossafunk,
    I couldn't help but wonder-how does one experience a loss of funk. Was it a funkadectomy? Too many Lawrence Welk records?  Does it hurt?  Just wondering. To find out that I could possibly lose my funk is terrifying. I have so much invested in it. Sorry to hear about your loss.

actually, it's from an e-mail address of mine. I only use lossafunk 'cause lotsafunk was taken. It's all about slurring the word. It was a reference to my bass playing(or maybe my feet not sure which). But you are kinda correct, there has been a loss, when I found shakuhachi, I stopped playing bass. Your condolences is appreciated.

This is how Lawrence Welk got his funk back.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i48BP1PUoFI

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#17 2008-07-29 19:03:01

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Whew! What a relief! Glad to hear you're O.K. Maybe Tairaku can council you on the bass/shakuhachi dilema. Ken, you've exposed my musical bigotry. I've been so unfair to Lawrence. I'm embarassed. If you've got a video of James Brown playing a polka I'm going to get some rebirthing therapy and start all over. My perception has obviously gone askew somewhere along the line. Plus we just had an earthquake here(L.A.) This has been a tumultuous day.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#18 2008-07-30 00:48:58

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Jim Thompson wrote:

If you've got a video of James Brown playing a polka I'm going to get some rebirthing therapy and start all over. My perception has obviously gone askew somewhere along the line. Plus we just had an earthquake here(L.A.) This has been a tumultuous day.

Are you sure you know tumultuous? Check out the James Brown/Pavarotti collaboration.


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#19 2008-07-30 02:11:40

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Nothing is weirder than Lou Reed and Pavarotti.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgbN81zNG8

That means I am only one degree removed from Pavarotti. Don't know what to think about that.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#20 2008-07-30 10:05:31

Dun Romin
Member
From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

smile Just don't then, Tairaku. That combination you speak about is not just weird; it's plain musical rape. You can't compare that with shakuhachi! To go back to the subject, did you mean with this comparison to indicate the level of the black bamboo formerly spoken of?.........eh...


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#21 2008-07-30 11:09:57

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Tairaku wrote:

Nothing is weirder than Lou Reed and Pavarotti.

Boy oh boy you're right about that. That makes no sense AT ALL! It's not hard to spot an idea coming from guys in suits in offices.
    Dun Romin,  I think this has nothing to do with black flutes and I take full resposibilty for screwing up this thread. My apologies. What about those black flutes?


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#22 2008-07-31 13:31:57

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Jim Thompson wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Nothing is weirder than Lou Reed and Pavarotti.

Dun Romin,  I think this has nothing to do with black flutes and I take full resposibilty for screwing up this thread. My apologies. What about those black flutes?

Those black bamboo "shakuhachi" are no longer on ebay.


-gravity sucks-

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#23 2010-07-07 04:36:07

Apparentesistenza
Member
Registered: 2010-07-05
Posts: 4

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

This one http://cgi.ebay.it/1-8-Ji-Nashi-Nobe-Sh … 3f01305c8a is made with "Speckled Black Bamboo". But the seller has already 3 or 4 of this shakuhachi sold, so I think it's not a hand-crafted Shakuhachi. But if yes, I would to know why it's so cheap!

Last edited by Apparentesistenza (2010-07-07 04:38:20)

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#24 2010-07-07 05:00:14

Christopher B.
Member
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 235
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

As I know this are hand-crafted Shakuhachi, if you take a look this is a non-root end Shakuhachi and the make is not well known. Another player that I know had a root end Shakuhachi from this maker but I dont know what he think about it but I can ask him...

[edit] I asked the other player, he ownded a root end one and telled me that they are really thinwalled and not made out of madake bamboo [/edit]

If you are looking for a Shakuhachi to get started I can recommend Perry Yungs "earth model" flutes. Also I know that Derek Choice is selling some good flutes this week, you can check them out here.

http://www.hollowbamboo.net/Inga/shakuhachiforsale.htm

I am not a professional and dont evaluate much flutes but it is important to get started with a right flute to grow with, otherwise you will play some months and get a next one and then another and so on. Anyways I also addicted to buy/collect Shakuhachi wink

The tradional lenght for study will be 1.8.

Be well,

Christopher

Last edited by Christopher B. (2010-07-07 05:09:01)


In reality it is Ha,Ro,Ha,Ro... ~Sensei~
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#25 2010-07-07 05:45:36

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: black bamboo shakuhachi

Apparentesistenza wrote:

But if yes, I would to know why it's so cheap!

Because it basically a stick of bamboo, and not even a particularly good one, with holes drilled in it. Minimal workmanship involved. It depends on what you want it for. If you plan to take lessons and play more advanced stuff you'll need something better.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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