Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Vevolis wrote:

I find it difficult to play Re or U. I can play other basic notes fairly easily (especially Otsu Ri) but Re and U are very strained and often times don't even sound. I know you have to play U slightly meri, but I can never seem to sound either note very well. Any thoughts?

More long tones (on any note). Really.

Also: Do you have problems with Re on ANY flute you play, or just the current one? Just trying to narrow it down a bit.

Regarding U: How are you fingering it? There are several ways, and one may work better for you than others. Some teachers are strict about how they want it fingered, though, so this may be moot for you, too.

I found that putting my finger NEXT to hole 3, or directly above it, without covering the hole, improved my tone on U.  Just having the finger in the neighborhood of the hole was noticable.  I've also found that unobstructed breath is profoundly important for all meri notes, that is bringing the breath right from the diaphram to the utaguchi in one steady flow.  Not sure if that makes sense.  Also, pulling the chin in instead of lowing the head (if you can appreciate the difference, it is rather minute) leaves more room for meri.  I found that when I just lowered my head, my lower lip was filling up the mouth opening.

With RE, I think it is all about embochure.  Ed is right about the long notes.

I am just talking one beginner to another here.  I don't want to give any other impression.  I am not trying to give any instruction.  Just sharing my experience.  Please correct any silly things that I've said.

axolotl wrote:

2.  My instruction book has U (or 'ou') with your finger configuration, but it's also played (as my teacher has taught me) with the lowest finger hole open.  (is that hole 5?  I guess so.)

Just to get the orientation right, the lowest hole on the front of shakuhachi is the #1 hole or Tsu (holes are named for the pitch you hear when that hole is opened). The #5 hole is your thumb hole (I).

Masa, Jim Thompson's teacher, taught me U as 2, 4, 5 closed with 1 and 3 shaded; chin position slightly meri to achieve a G# on a 1.8.

I have seen charts for U  as 1, 2, 4, 5 closed, chin is meri to G#. And variations of this.

(There is also an U-meri written with a little circle on the tail of the U which requires more shading of the #3 Chi hole and a more meri chin position. The pitch U-meri is G on a 1.8, the same pitch as Re but having a very different timbre than a straight Re note.)

The U fingering Masa taught was more difficult, but comes in handy in honkyoku passages of U to Tsu-meri Some older shakuhachi sound U much 'better' with this more complex fingering. A teacher can elaborate more articulately and authoritatively.

Nice to see you at Peter Hill's class in Pomona, Eric!

Try to play your ro, tsu, re, chi, and hi in as kari a position as possible, with help of that tuner, as axolotl suggested.  If you can do that with proficiency it may make it easier to drop your chin on the meri.  For u played in honkyoku our branch of Kinko partly covers 1st (bottom) and 3rd holes and completely covers 2,4,and 5; for gaikyoku it's the more standard 3rd hole open and all others covered.

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2008-08-21 20:39:08)

Daniel Ryudo wrote:

For u played in honkyoku our branch of Kinko partly covers 1st (bottom) and 3rd holes and completely covers 2,4,and 5; for gaikyoku it's the more standard 3rd hole open and all others covered.

Hi Dan, what particular branch of Kinko do you study? Sorry to digress, but my curiosity gets the better of courtesy.

-- Chris

Jeff Cairns wrote:

You said that Perry refurbished your 1.8.  Were all notes playable by him at that time?  How long ago was that?  Has your flute undergone any trauma?  If the flute is a two piece flute, are there any signs of cracks at or near the middle joint?  Is there anything lodged in or around either the second or third holes?  If you are able to rule out yourself as the problem by trying other flutes, then the problem has something to do with the peculiarity of the flute.  Time to run some tests.

Perry actually posted a video *This is an edit; why does the word "Vid-e-o" turn into "notation"* of it, I don't know if it's still available. The eBay link is still functional:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREAT-1-8-AUTHEN=TI … dZViewItem

The flute has a repaired crack that actually reaches the joint but nothing that effects the tonal quality (to my knowledge), the crack goes through hole #4, but I don't think it is very deep, you never know. I guess I never considered it. The bindings are surface. Maybe when I have some money I’ll have them inlaid and tightened. The only trauma to speak of is that I own it. Otherwise it's in a Tei Hei case and plastic bag in a place where my daschund can't reach it.

Unfortunately I haven't got another flute to try and aside from Debbie Danbrook, I don't know anyone who plays the instrument (perhaps I’m anti-social ). I haven't asked to try her flute; it looks far too expensive and might be a rude request. In either case, I was able to play the note with her (again, it's on and off) the tuning ends up being accurate when I pivot my head; it mirrors her Shakuhachi's tuning. I’m not good enough to tell if my Meri/Keri is “perfect” to tell if the instrument itself is out of tune.

Last edited by Vevolis (2008-08-22 09:08:44)

Vevolis wrote:

The flute has a repaired crack that actually reaches the joint but nothing that effects the tonal quality (to my knowledge), the crack goes through hole #4, but I don't think it is very deep, you never know. I guess I never considered it. The bindings are surface. Maybe when I have some money I’ll have them inlaid and tightened. The only trauma to speak of is that I own it. Otherwise it's in a Tei Hei case and plastic bag in a place where my daschund can't reach it.

Just to note: if Perry fixed the flute, it AIN'T the repair that's causing the problem (ie, leaks, for example). I also don't think the inlaying of the bindings is a useful expense. The bindings won't be appreciatively tighter than they are now, and bear in mind that even though the inlaid bindings look nicer, the strengh of the flute has been more or less compromised (depending on the wall thickness) by cutting into the bamboo to do the inlays.

One other thought: The flute may have a slightly 'weak' Re—not all that uncommon—and you just haven't got its measure yet. More long tones, please. How long have you actually been playing it?

I also want to reiterate Jeff's comments about playing everything as kari as possible (even as kari as NOT possible). At first, as beginning players, this will only seem to make it more difficult to get a good, reliable sound, but bear with it, and you'll find the sweet spot again in time as your embouchure develops.

New players, as has been said here before, tend to play flat (everything slightly meri) in order to get a good sound, but there will still come a time to suck it up and start playing in tune (more kari), and the embouchure will still have to be developed for that way of playing: more kari, and the lips are farther from the blowind edge, requiring a more focused airstream.

Last edited by edosan (2008-08-22 10:07:27)

Thanks for the kind words on the repairs guys. I try my best but only time will tell how long my repairs last. I've worked on old flutes that were 50 years or older where I've had to redo bindings.  Traditionally, Urushi is used as glue and Ji to smooth over the inlays. That usually lasts a very long time, but probably not forever.

Scott, I think your flute is a very solid player. But, there is a chance that it may have sprung leak.  Does Ro sound? If Ro sounds well. There is no leak. You should ask your teacher to check it.

For those interested, here is the vid to Scott's Kyosui 1.8 . It was shot in May 2008.

I tried looking up on how to add BBCode for movies but none worked for me.
Anyone know to post a vid here?

Peace, Perry

Last edited by Yungflutes (2008-08-22 11:30:42)

Scott, I'd be happy to test the flute for you and report back to you and Perry on it. I live in California but I've had no trouble shipping and receiving flutes from all over the globe.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2008-08-22 11:40:41)

Chris Moran wrote:

Nice to see you at Peter Hill's class in Pomona, Eric!

How did that happen?  I was in Big Sur and had to ditch!    Did Jeremy Wariner, my twin, show up in my stead?  I wish I could have made the group and private lessons.  Next time.

Chris Moran wrote:

Masa, Jim Thompson's teacher, taught me U as 2, 4, 5 closed with 1 and 3 shaded; chin position slightly meri to achieve a G# on a 1.8.

Exactly what Jim Thompson taught me as well.  1 shaded sounds 'better' than 1 closed.  A little airier and yet fuller, if that makes any sense.

Chris asked  "what particular branch of Kinko do you study? Sorry to digress, but my curiosity gets the better of courtesy."

Hi Chris,

I study with a branch called Chikudosha. It split off from Domon kai, Notomi Judo's style of playing, about 25 years ago.

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2008-08-23 09:49:53)

It really does depend what state of mind and relaxation you're in. I'm usually stressed and stiff, like rigid galvanized conduit.

I hear you.  When I have trouble with any note and then stop and inspect what I am doing, crunching up my cheeks and face is one of the first problems that I notice in almost every case.  Have a smooth relaxed face always improves tone and just plain making a sound.