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#1 2008-09-15 11:45:00

jaybeemusic
Member
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 145

How do you apply ji?

I've tried and ruined about 10 pieces of bamboo because i can't seem to figure out how to apply the plaster properly.

I've tried long sticks, pieces of bamboo, dowels, and all i seem to be able to do is make a mess and it never seems to get nice and smooth.

Where do you start to apply the plaster?

Do you work from the middle of the flute outwards?

or from the smallest interior diameter (choke point) outwards?

or something in between.

and when you're doing the plaster, do you just stuff a bunch in there and sand/file it down until it's where it's supposed to be. or do you try to get it perfectly smooth before you even start sanding?

oh yeah....  and do you try to do the plaster before OR after the holes are drilled?

thanks a million...

jacques


It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people "think" that you're stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

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#2 2008-09-15 14:44:32

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

jaybeemusic wrote:

I've tried and ruined about 10 pieces of bamboo because i can't seem to figure out how to apply the plaster properly.

I've tried long sticks, pieces of bamboo, dowels, and all i seem to be able to do is make a mess and it never seems to get nice and smooth.

Where do you start to apply the plaster?

Do you work from the middle of the flute outwards?

or from the smallest interior diameter (choke point) outwards?

or something in between.

and when you're doing the plaster, do you just stuff a bunch in there and sand/file it down until it's where it's supposed to be. or do you try to get it perfectly smooth before you even start sanding?

oh yeah....  and do you try to do the plaster before OR after the holes are drilled?

thanks a million...

jacques

Jacques,

Applying ji can be a mess. Here are some tips which I hope will help.

The main thing is to do it in steps rather than all at once.

It's important to paint the bore with a coat of urushi first. Let it dry before adding ji paste. This will help it adhere. It might take about three coats of ji paste to coat the bore. The first coat should be a bit drier than the other coats. Push it into the bore firmly with a long, thin spatula until the entire bore is covered with a thin layer. Work systematically from any starting point. I like to push in small pieces at a time. It's much easier to do this with a two piece shakuhachi. Dry it in the humid box, then add smoother coats to fill any imperfections. Dry, then grind while flushing the bore with water. This helps smooth the bore. You might want to add a final wetter ji to touch it up and for any necessary bore adjustment. This last step can be repeated many times as you adjust the bore. Finally, add a few coats of finish urushi and polish as needed.

If you are making a flute to precise specs you can drill the holes first. If not, you can apply ji first. I prefer to drill the holes after but I'm sure there is variance with this among makers.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Ken

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#3 2008-09-15 21:23:12

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

Hi Ken,
Thanks for that information.  Your idea of flushing the bore with water is interesting.  I've never heard of doing that before.  Did you come upon that yourself, or was that method passed on to you? I'm just wondering how common that might be.   What is the benefit of flushing the bore as opposed to not doing it?  Thanks again for your constant good help.
jeff


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#4 2008-09-15 23:42:16

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

Jeff Cairns wrote:

Hi Ken,
Thanks for that information.  Your idea of flushing the bore with water is interesting.  I've never heard of doing that before.  Did you come upon that yourself, or was that method passed on to you? I'm just wondering how common that might be.   What is the benefit of flushing the bore as opposed to not doing it?  Thanks again for your constant good help.
jeff

Hi Jeff,

I first read about water flushing in Carl Abbott's "Blowing Zen - One Breath, One Mind." I tried it and was impressed with how it rapidly smoothed the bore. I had the best luck using a very long, thin, rounded bamboo stick and rapidly moving it in and out of the wet bore while making sure the stick protruded beyond each end of the flute. It does a good job of breaking down the high spots into a pasty smear then evens it out quickly. It seemed like a time saver to me. I'm not sure how widespread this practice is or if there are any structural dangers associated with it. I haven't noticed any yet.

(Just reading now that Carl studied shakuhachi construction with Kanske Kawase. Perhaps that is where he learned the technique)

Ken

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#5 2008-09-16 13:56:37

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

I wrote Carl Abbott about flushing the bore with water. He gave me permission to pass on his reply:

KL

"Using water while grinding out the ji is like using water on a wetstone when sharpening a knife. The water flushes away the grindings so they don't clog up the wetstone, or in this case the sandstone piece at the end of the bamboos stick. As this step for me was a common sense thing to do at the time anyway, I doubt Kanske told me.

The wonderful thing about Japanese instruction, at least in my experience, is that teachers leave you alone, and point only to what is absolutely needed. Western teachers, on the other hand, often prefer to 'fill up the space', and prevent problems from occurring. Too bad for allowing problems to unfold naturally places the mind in a extra receptive mode. Why one fills silence with answers before the question ripens is an interesting symptom.

Now, flushing the bamboo with water just to get a sense of what it will sound like when finished is perhaps also an obvious thing one notices when making shakuhachi. Although, you should know that I have a rather 'try everything, throw it on the wall and see what sticks' approach to life, and so much of what I stumble across comes from that approach."


/~\
carl

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#6 2008-09-16 22:56:01

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

Thanks very much for that Ken (and Carl).


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#7 2008-09-17 10:50:16

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

Hi All, I went to a few of Mejiro's Shakuhachi Workshops around 2002 to see how other maker's approach the craft ( and highly recommend them!). I can't remember the maker's name but he also poured water through the bore during the fine tuning. He used wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around a dowel and a bucket of water.

Jacques, there are different ways of applying Ji. There are also different mixtures of Ji (depending upon who you learned from) with different consistencies. So one needs to learn how to work with the material in order to not make a mess. Some are more smooth and some grainy, some clay-like and some puddy-like. Kinya had special tools made to smoothen the inside after the applications. It's like a long shovel scraper that extended out of the bore so it scrapped the walls evenly when turned and left a very nice surface. These were custom made tools that cost a lot of money. I found a different way of doing it because I couldn't a find a tool maker to make them.

Two piece flutes are much easier to work with. I drill the holes first and then start applying Ji at the middle and work my way out from both ends. i made long thin bamboo spatulas for this.

After I get the ji in, I let it cure a little then pull and press hollow metal dowels through the bore to even the plaster out. Both ends need to be at it's desired diameters so that the entire section will be even. The excess Ji will come out of the ends. After years of practice, I'm now able to produce a relatively smooth and even surface that ready for fine tuning, Early on, it was a bit messy smile

Hope this helps,
Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#8 2008-09-17 11:30:03

philthefluter
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 190
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

I have also seen the water trick at Mejiro. One of the makers there used a thin end of a 'blank' fishing rod line to even out the ji. I got a good supply from a fishing rod maker years ago. It is quite flexible so can cope with slight curves in the bamboo. The ji is evened out with a vigorous and quick movement.


"The bamboo and Zen are One!" Kurosawa Kinko
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/
http://www.myspace.com/shakuhachizen

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#9 2008-09-17 14:24:00

Jon Kypros
Flutemaker
From: Europe
Registered: 2008-06-28
Posts: 261
Website

Re: How do you apply ji?

Hello,

This Japanese urushi lacquer site has pictures describing a process of Ji and urushi for fine bowls.

http://www.urushi-kobo.com/process.html

You can read more on this topic and see a video and pictures on my website on my page Jinashi and Jimori vs. 'Jiari' Jinuri and cast-bore Shakuhachi.

Personally I don't use urushi any longer for my  shakuhachi for sale because of the rashes and allergic reactions which are known to send some to the ER.
Truly life threatening for some.

RO on, Jon

Last edited by Jon Kypros (2024-03-30 19:39:49)


My site flutedojo. Craftsperson of Jinashi and Jimori shakuhachi for sale since 2002. Dai Shihan 'Grandmaster' and full-time teacher of shakuhachi lessons

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