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I just returned to Oregon from visiting my son in Brooklyn and found the upper alcove of the Clinton/Washington subway station the most amazing place to play. We were returning from visiting a friend in Manhattan late and there was no one in the station, so I took the chance to hear the acoustics of this station and I'm sorry to say it ruined me. The sound picked me up and flung me aside or maybe not. The sound was so exquisite that now I am desperate to find a place of similar acoustic properties. I know better than to allow myself this indulgence but there is an such an intense emotional attachment to this sound and I struggle to let go and just play. Have any of you had this experience and if so did you build your own subway station?
I would also be interested in places in the world where people have found these gardens of sound. I imagine a tour of them late in my life.
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I have to say that I am very lucky with the acoustics fo our Dojo.
The dojo was built in the basment of our place which is all concrete floors and walls so when I leave the door open of the Dojo the sound is like many of the smaller recital halls I have seen. So this is quite good. The only thing that felt strange and that still feels strange sometimes is the fact that the Dojo is a 100% Japanese style room so the sound that we get when playing being of the recital hall quality just does not match the room type. But in a way I can say I got the best of both worlds.
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Great subject! - I remember with great fondness blowing a bottle in an old air raid shelter (20 odd years ago, probably not even there any more), but that was the feeling of being part of a single acoustic system: just hitting that one note.
Since I've been carrying a Yuu with me for the last year or so my favorite locations have been:
An underpass under the Leeds ring road at Meanwood - approx 3m diameter, 15m long, corrugated walls.
The new pedestrian tunnels between platforms at York railway station.
A boulder at the bottom of a gully in the cliffs near Eyemouth - not great acoustically, but the sun was shinning, the birds sang along, and the tide lapped ever closer to my feet: Magic. (K -? (sic))
There does seem to be something about transport architecture: I'd love to have a go in the near by motorway tunnels, but I don't think it would be good for my heath!
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It's a fun thing to go explore acoustic spaces. Limestone caves, stairwells, carpark buildings, tile bathrooms, foyers, corridors, any hard surface with high ceilings.
I do an annual pilgrimage to a Pythagorean based design, eight sided, concrete walled, tiled floor, hardwood domed ceiling probably twelve meters high and ten wide with a five second decay. Built for singing. Some churches may also have long decay acoustics.
Only down side, hard to have silent moments. The decay of one note flows into the attack of the next.
Kel.
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In Chichibu when studying with Kakizakai-sensei, we (the students) used to walk out at night to a lonely bridge, and play under a towering archway supporting the bridge below. It was all open air except for the arch above, and which although high would reflect the sound really well. That's where we'd go for ro-buki - great space.
Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/
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sometimes find myself in a dance studio playing with a long decay
a beautiful surprise
once in chelsea, in nyc, in a very large old loft building the stairwell blew me away
read last year that the recently apointed oboist for the new york philharmonic practiced in his closet where there is absolutely no decay because the clothes absorbed his sound
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/08/arts/ … 8waki.html "Mr. Wang auditioned for the New York Philharmonic in May 2005, having practiced for a month in his closet, where the dead acoustic laid bare the tiniest flaws. (“Trust me,” he said, “it doesn’t sound good at all.”)"
His story is amazing.
I wonder if his approach might have some benefit to us as shakuhachi players?
Last edited by indigo (2008-10-02 12:18:24)
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I seem to remember there's a way to sample the acoustic properties of a space and then recreate them. A friend of mine had access to the technology a few years ago and created the sound of a piano in a stairwell where a piano couldn't physically fit.
Looking back at our correspondence at the time I referred to a hologram, so I think this must have been acoustic holograpy. But Googling that term I find it being used more for analysis of spaces than for recreating them. I'll have to ask the person who was working with this.
On a more accesible level, a lot can be done with something like a Lexicon reverb and a decent microphone....
Last edited by Sweep (2008-10-02 21:24:01)
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I used to go to the "horse tunnels"in Central Park in Manhattan, particularly the ones behind the MMA.
These we/are my sacred places- where sound lingers and inspiration is lifted.
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practising in a place without revebr or delay is one of the best thing to do to develop a good sound.
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Sweep wrote:
I seem to remember there's a way to sample the acoustic properties of a space and then recreate them. A friend of mine had access to the technology a few years ago and created the sound of a piano in a stairwell where a piano couldn't physically fit.
This might be an "impulse response"...
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Sweep wrote:
I seem to remember there's a way to sample the acoustic properties of a space and then recreate them.
Convolution is probably what you're thinking of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_reverb
As others have mentioned, while it is fun to play with acoustic spaces, and that play is definitely a part of the music, practicing in dead space is important. Natural reverb can be almost as much of a crutch in practicing as artificial reverb is in recording.
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nyokai wrote:
Sweep wrote:
I seem to remember there's a way to sample the acoustic properties of a space and then recreate them.
Convolution is probably what you're thinking of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_reverb
Yes, that's it. It's funny, I'd completely forgotten about this technique until I read this topic. It'd be nice to be able to sample locations like the ones mentioned here and be able to reproduce them elsewhere. Something to explore...
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My favorite spot was inside a large water tank that was being built on a ranch. The reverb was fabulous and had extremely exaggerated decay times. The concrete stairwell in my old University was also excellent.
Toby
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Indulge in the pure beauty of the sound but don't forget the work required to do the sound justice.
I am enjoying hearing from all of you about the sound sanctuaries, some of them being virtual places. I Plan to stay away from my closet for a number of reasons and wish to visit a large water tank on a ranch somewhere, an old university stairwell, the horse tunnels in Central Park, an underpass near Leeds, pedestrian tunnels near York, an old loft in Chelsea, a lonely bridge in Chichubu. It would be nice to run into some of you there.
I was hoping for some grand undiscovered caves or abandoned ancient temples but so far these places will do. I plan like one of you to get blown away by the experience and maybe stay away in the end. Other ideas would be most welcome and thank you for sharing.
This odd and strangely connected community is reassuring to me. I even enjoyed the bickering and have started to miss that part of this place, as it reminded me of fights between siblings. We love each other enough to piss each other off and still stay connected. Maybe that is the other side of this conversation.
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Interesting that everyone's response to "sound gardens" is to talk about playing inside some enclosed space.
A couple of years ago, a swarm of bees that had split from an overcrowded hive settled on a tree outside my workplace. They were looking for a place to establish their new colony, but when the weather cooled, they clustered on one branch trying to keep the queen warm enough. When it started to warm up, they became more active, and the tight ball of bees became a cloud surrounding the tree. At lunchtime, I stood in the middle of it, closed my eyes, and blew shakuhachi. With the hum and buzz of the swarm all around me, I imagined that this is what it would feel like to be inside the flute. When I opened my eyes, I saw several people staring at me like I was crazy, and couldn't think of any convincing argument to the contrary.
Ever since, I have played bee-nashi shakuhachi exclusively.
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Something tells me you just happened to be wearing your mesh-net tengai at the time...
Zak
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rpowers, a VERY nice story!
I LOVE bees myself - having helped a bee keeper in Denmark in my teens and then later on in New Zealand at an organic farm. Now that I am trying to pull out of England and move 100% to the Danish countryside (not half the time as now), I am hoping to be able to have bees again soon. Then I will join you in the bee-nashi playing - staying away from the balls of bees! Must have been amazing, though. It was always exciting when a hive split in 2, but I never thought of playing shakuhachi whilst it was going on.
One of my best experiences of acoustics is also outdoors. I have been (am not anymore) married to a Swiss saxophonist. When we decided on a place to do our homemade wedding ceremony, it was winter and the Alps was, naturally, covered with snow. We just decided on doing it up there... on top of a lift we knew was operating in summer. It was something like 1800 m altitude. When we got up there a week before the big day, it was a horrible place with gravel all over. We walked around and found, by chance, a wonderful place that was shaped like a bowl and was protected against winds with grass and flowers growing. It had views to Mt Blanc and the mountain range on one side, and walls of the mountain we were on on the 3 other sides. We had to make the guests do a little mountaineering and walk over snow (grandmothers had to give up half way...). When we then at the ceremony played a duo (for the first time at that place) the acoustics was fantastic! The walls on the side threw back the sound but perhaps the open side made it not sound like echo. Anyway, it was a great experience, but the relationship didn't last... oh well!
I haven't been there since... but I have been thinking about going there to play!
Last edited by Kiku Day (2008-10-05 05:55:25)
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Dean Del Bene wrote:
Okay, I'll play you the special version.
Special, indeed. Yummy story!
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It is interesting to hear the tension between the sheer pleasure of the sound and the indulgence that this encourages and the need for discipline and the caution required not loose oneself in the sound. This has been my experience and I wonder at it. I find myself thinking of the early development of this music and wonder if it grew out of soulful indulgence and how is that related to a giving up oneself to the sound.
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Dean Del Bene wrote:
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10 … cagoIL.jpg
The Daley Center building pictured behind the Picasso sculpture has amazing acoustics. One freezing winter in 1991 with the temperatures hovering at +4 F, Patricia Barber and I were busking with alto saxaphones outside in the plaza, and after making a couple of bucks, decided to go in the Daley Center and try to warm up. We walked into the glass enclosed first floor and were stopped by two security guards and an officer. No one else was in the entire bottom floor which covered an open space of about a quarter block. One lady guard said it was the Chicago Police man's birthday, she laughed and said could we play him Happy Birthday. My hands were pretty red. I slowly opened the case and put the horn back together. Sure. How many years did you turn today. 51. Okay, I'll play you the special version. So I began Happy Birthday and the sound popped out like all the angels in heaven choir!!! I finished the song and started an improv on the melody, basking in the warm air and long ethereal reverb, stretching out that Happy Birthday as much as I could. When I finished, I opened my eyes and looked at the cop and he was crying, head down, wiping the tears from his eyes.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Dean. What a beautiful story!
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