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#1 2008-10-23 19:14:32

Karmajampa
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From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
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Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

The WSF 2008 was a wonderful opportunity for me, a 'teach myself because there is no teacher around' player, to get so much valuable information to take back home.

One class was on 'using the vocal chords' when blowing. I don't think I have ever read anything about this on the forum so feel it would be useful to mention.

We were presented with video and audio of the vocal chords while Shakuhachi is being blown. Perhaps made using 'Ultra-sound' equipment.
there were two examples, one of a beginner player, the other of an experienced player.
I am probably correct in assuming that we have all experienced making noise with our vocal chords while blowing and that generally this is not cool, but there is a really useful connection here.
The video of the beginner player showed the vocal chords wide open throughout the piece, very little movement or contraction. On the other example of an experienced player the vocal chords were contracting and opening, depending on the pitch of the note being blown. When a higher note was being blown the vocal chords would narrow significantly.
The technique describes how the vocal chords are used very effectively to speed up the flow of air being pumped from the 'hara' or belly, and directed by the mouth and lips. It is the vocal chords as well as the lips that compress the air into a faster flow. And often only vocal chord use to get a faster flow without changing the lips or blowing harder !
To observe this simply blow any otsu note then tighten the vocal chords as though you are singing a high note, and you may observe the note going into the kan octave. It certainly makes playing kan notes a lot easier.

Now I practice using my vocal chords by first singing the note or scale, then by blowing while singing, then by only blowing. This gives me good indication of what it feels like to tighten the vocal chords, and how to do this without making vocal noise.

It is interesting to listen to those vocal noises on recordings, and to hear just how much is being put into their contraction during playing. Especially some of the older players who perhaps no longer have the physical strength not to make vocal noise at the same time.

Hope this helps,
Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#2 2008-10-24 11:30:48

philthefluter
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From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 190
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Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

I would have liked to have gone to this presentation. The vocal chords do change as you blow different notes. This improves with experience. However, the feeling of changing the breath pressure must come from the diaphragm and abdominal muscles. It is ok to sense the change in vocal chords but focusing on it can cause tension.

It is a good exercise as you suggested to sing octaves before playing. Try the syllables Ohh-Ehh-Ohh. It is the changing back to otsu that is most difficult.

Some beginner players can engage the vocal chords when blowing. This can be effective and used by great players but it can also be overdone. I recommend blowing without the shakuhachi on the chin. Then place the shakuhachi slowly while trying to keep the same feeling of blowing. Maybe some players when struggling to get a sound focus on the vocal chords to change pressure and forget the role of the diaphragm and abdonimal muscles.

Singing while playing can sound great on flute but i have never liked the combination on shakuhachi. One can sing along, sing a different line like a harmony or hold one tone when changing fingering.


"The bamboo and Zen are One!" Kurosawa Kinko
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/
http://www.myspace.com/shakuhachizen

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#3 2008-10-24 11:42:55

Musgo da Pedra
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From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
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Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

philthefluter wrote:

One can sing along, sing a different line like a harmony or hold one tone when changing fingering.

And the interesting about this is that the notes that have more harmonics in common works better with the same amount of air... 
 
For example, if you sing a F and put the shakuhachi in play position making it sound, the F (tonic), the C (5th) and the Bb (4th) will sound great with the same air used to blow a F... other notes than the 4th or 5th  sound weaker as they come in harmonic progression (the 3rd and the 6th sound good also, but no so good as fourth and fifths)...

The same work if we hold a note and sing a melodic line...


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#4 2008-10-24 12:18:22

Karmajampa
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From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

I have a Watazumi CD on which he talks a bit then does this full on throat growl. I don't know what he has said but the effect of the growl loosens my throat. This helps with otsu notes.
Also in returning from kan to otsu I find singing the low note or feeling the vocal chords in that posture has been useful.

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#5 2008-10-24 15:04:00

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

Frank Denyer uses a lot of singing in his shakuhachi pieces. When I did "The Tender Sadness of Tyrants as they Dance" with flute player jos Zwaanenburg, I thought the effect of the two of us singing and playing, which meant we made a four note chord was quite amazing!

In 1998 I lost my voice for 2 solid month after having malaria. It really affected my shakuhachi playing that the vocal chords were not moving. What a relief when they did begin to move despite the odds the doctors had given. So, I surely was made aware how much the movements of the vocal chords means for shakuhachi playing.

Wish I had been to that seminar too....


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#6 2008-11-03 22:38:36

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

http://members.shaw.ca/ppguide/xray/xray.htm

this are some Video X-rays of a flutist. It`s not a shakuhachi, but will help to get the idea.

Last edited by geni (2008-11-03 22:40:39)

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#7 2009-01-05 18:33:38

axolotl
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

Is there something that can be done to prevent that sort of involuntary vocalization when blowing Ro?  Perhaps this is related to not activating the diaphragm enough.  I imagine other people experience this..that 'ro grunt'.

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#8 2009-01-06 03:27:43

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

axolotl wrote:

Is there something that can be done to prevent that sort of involuntary vocalization when blowing Ro?  Perhaps this is related to not activating the diaphragm enough.  I imagine other people experience this..that 'ro grunt'.

You've got the reason for the involuntary vocalization right... most of the time it's related to the diaphragm. There's a tendency to control the flow of air by tightening the throat, this will sometimes cause vocalization or maybe just a noise like yoga practitioners like to do when they breath. Vocalizing is definitely undesireable. The other breath noise that yoga practitioners like isn't nearly as noticeable, but at least with silver flute it's something teachers say isn't correct breathing. I'm not certain about shakuhachi because part of the reason is to get a good vibrato which isn't an issue with shakuhachi. There has been a lot written about playing with an "open throat", if you don't believe me try googling "flute open throat".

Since the vocalizing is obviously wrong on any flute what you need to do to avoid it is to control the air flow with your diaphragm instead of your throat. How to go about this without just staying concious of keeping the the throat relaxed is a bit trickier. Try breathing along with a recording of a good player pretending you're playing along with him. Since you're not producing any flute sound yourself you should be able to hear if you're unconsciously restricting the air flow. This visualization exercise will help train you to keep your throat relaxed when you go on to actually pick up the instrument and play. Keep in mind that it is an exercise and probably won't yield results immediately. 

I strongly suggest to anybody learning shakuhachi or any flute to pick up Riley Lee's "Breathe" DVD. It's really that good. After years of silver flute lessons, voice lessons, rebirthing (a breathing technique), and yoga practice I bought the DVD thinking I probably wouldn't learn anything new from it. But I did, there were only a few exercises that weren't new to me and all of the exercises were very effective. You can get it from Amazon.com.

Last edited by radi0gnome (2009-01-06 03:47:47)


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#9 2009-01-06 03:56:54

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

Cool, I was just poking around looking at the results of the google search I mentioned in my last post and found this quote from Robert Dick that touches on both the subject of open throat and throat tuning:

The following quoted from Robert Dick:

The "open throat" concept was a milestone in the development of 20th
century flute tone. It certainly blew the old tight throat and
rapidfire vibrato right off of the musical scene. And
good riddance.

The drawback to the open throat concept is that it limits sound colors
if it is used without variation in syllables -- as is so often taught.
The evolutionary successor to the open throat is
the tuned throat. And when throat tuning is done well, the effect of
the vowel formed in the mouth is magnified.

Every person who has ever played a wind instrument with a beautiful
tone has done throat tuning to some degree, whether they were
conscious of it or not.

Robert Dick
from the FLUTE list - December 1997


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#10 2009-01-16 04:28:21

froggyantbear
Member
Registered: 2008-12-28
Posts: 12

Re: Vocal chord use when playing Shakuhachi

Wow, as a didge player and "used to be trained vocally" singer, this is enlightening to be aware of the vocal chords opening or closing.

Thanks will be much more aware of it. I have been playing with what didge players call "toughing" which is putting your tough high up to
the top of the mouth or lowering it to the bottom. I think this is a good way to explain to beginners to make them to be aware of their
throats opening or closing. And yeah playing with "tough" in shakuhachi adds a new dimension to vocal or opening throat!

Its not traditional of course, and really the sound isn't quite fitting of peaceful traditional shakuhachi pieces, but fun to try none the less!

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