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#1 2009-03-24 17:04:49

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Fast tonguing

Does anyone have tips for the tongue?  I am trying to do sixteenth notes quickly (this is still in "Ame") and my tonguing sounds very spluttery and 'th-th-th'-y.  On recordings is sounds so much purer.  I am sure that the tonguing is messing up my embouchure, but I haven't figured out how to fix it.  If I cheat and just puff out breaths for each note, it sounds cleaner, but that's not the right technique.  Th-th-thanks in advance!

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#2 2009-03-24 20:20:07

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
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Re: Fast tonguing

I didn't know shakuhachi was tongued in traditional music. I obviously don't know that much about proper techniques for Japanese traditional music, but typically to tongue flutes fast you use double tonguing. That's where the first articulation is done by starting what would vocally be a "T" sound and the second a "K" sound so it alternates from using the front of the tongue to using the back of the tongue. Then you repeat it for however many notes you need. So, a string of 16ths would be played ti-ki-ti-ki-ti-ki-ti-ki.

It still takes a bit of practice touching the tongue lightly enough and not "swallowing" the note on the "K" part of it. It also takes a bit of practice synchronizing the tonguing with the fingering.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2009-03-24 20:26:34

axolotl
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Fast tonguing

Ah, it isn't traditional--it's a modern Hozan Yamamoto piece, hence the modern technique.  Thanks for the tip, radi0gnome--I was not doing the 'k' return part.  I will try it.

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#4 2009-03-25 02:33:53

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Fast tonguing

In music where tonguing is appropriate, be sure that you are doing it against the ridge behind your upper teeth, never against the inner surface of the lips.


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#5 2009-03-25 03:55:59

Bruce Hunter
Member
From: Apple Valley CA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 258

Re: Fast tonguing

Unless, of course, that is the sound/articulation/effect that one desires. And let's not forget tonguing elsewhere, like towards the back of the mouth if one needs to double- or triple-tongue. Non-traditional, to be sure, but there are appropriate places for these things. And let's not forget the so-called "French" tonguing where said muscle actually protrudes *through* and *past* the lips. (The ridge behind one's lower teeth was not put there as a decoration either). 8^) Sometimes some things happen at the roof of the mouth, but it's getting late and the little grey cells are clamoring for some downtime.

later...


Develop infallible technique and then lay yourself at the mercy of inspiration. - Anon.

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#6 2009-03-25 04:49:27

caffeind
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2006-04-13
Posts: 148

Re: Fast tonguing

Different positions produce different consonants. Tip, t. Bit further back, d. Further back again, k, right at the back, g. I try to use the rear positions because sometimes the tip sound is too hard in comparison to shakuhachi tone, but its the easiest tonguing position for me to play.

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