Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2009-04-02 23:55:13

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Hi there good people, I'm a newbie to Shakuhachi (just bought one the other day) but not to music. My listening habits are many and varied (kind of) - shakuhachi, heavy metal (mainly doom at the moment), progressive metal, ambient, electronic, gothic, western classical (kind of). Many years of oboe and keyboard (teaching and playing). I'm a qualified Tai Chi and Qigong instructor. Also about 2 months from becoming a qualified Remedial Therapist (specialising in Asian modalities such as Anma, Tuina, Acupressure, Thai Massage).

Now onto my overwhelming question - I'm presuming that my feeling of 'spinning out' and breathlessness is what can happen in the early stages of playing. Yes? And that gradually as my embouchure becomes more refined that  the overly abundant air from my lungs will become more efficient and less wasted. This is where I'm at, at the moment. Along with the 7 notes I can vaguely play ;-)

Comments would be most welcome here.

Also I'm suspecting that Shakuhachi teachers in Adelaide might not be easy to find - does anybody know?

Looking forward to further discussion


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

#2 2009-04-03 00:10:52

Larry Tyrrell
Moderator
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 2005-11-09
Posts: 73
Website

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Welcome to the forum, Lodro.

Just a quick tip on the "spinning out and breathlessness" you're experiencing.  Sounds like hyperventilation.
If you focus on completely exhaling for each note••whether or not you are suceeding in making a sound or
a "good sound"•• you will gain increased breath control and avoid hyperventilation. Mostly that's caused by
too many incomplete exhales in a row. Focus on breathing and the sound will come.

I can't think of anyone to recommend as a teacher in Adelaide but I'll let you know if I hear of someone.

Good luck and welcome!

Larry

Offline

 

#3 2009-04-03 00:56:49

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Thanks for the welcome Larry, and also the advice. I'll definitely work on that too. I'm also thinking that I'm misdirecting the air from my lips to an extent so that a large portion is simply 'going to waste'. My guess is that this is what is responsible for the 'very airy sound I'm producing, and also might be contributing to the other sensations I'm getting. I'm mainly practicing long notes to try to refine the sound and build up my capacity again (many years since I played the oboe)

Lodro


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

#4 2009-04-03 10:30:00

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Welcome to the forum, Lodro.

Have a look at these links, which might be helpful in focusing your efforts:

     http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=3343

     http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=1546

     http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=626

     http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=601

Lots of useful (mostly) advice and links to videos (all recommended).

Plus, oh frabjous joy! Along the way you'll get to meet Horst!


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#5 2009-04-03 10:37:51

Bas Nijenhuis
Member
From: Groningen, the Netherlands
Registered: 2008-10-30
Posts: 160
Website

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Welcome Lodro,

The out of breath is familiar! It will pass when you learn, by trying to make more sound, so less air is wasted and more sound produced. For me that was the culprit in the beginning of playing. I wanted to eagerly try to make a sound and started to try and thus breath too much.
Good luck with it!

Bas


Read more about my shakuhachi adventures at:
Bas' Shakuhachi Blog!

Offline

 

#6 2009-04-05 19:45:15

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Thanks once again guys for all of your help. This is most valuable information for a beginner such as myself, especially when there are no teachers available (that I know of). Any more advice, specific and general, would be most welcomed.

To be more specific on the instrument I bought, it is a Shakuhachi Yuu made by Andrew Macgregor. It was the affordable item at the time (as I wanted to experience the Shakuhachi experience first before moving on to a more proficient instrument). Other than a slight (but annoying) movement at the joint it is proving to be quite wonderful. On this joint deficiency, is there anything that can be done about it? The actual connection is quite tight (even with petroleum jelly applied) but there is, however, movement. The movement isn't 'rotational' movement, rather it's 'lateral-medial' movement . It doesn't happen with normal playing at all, just occasionally in handling. Should I try to sort it out or just accept it?

I must say, having followed some of the discussions on the forum, that I'm very impressed with the general manner and attitude of the authors. It's quite a joy to be on a forum that doesn't whinge about or debase other people's views/comments/musical appreciation. Being a 'metal-head' myself I've spent many long and somewhat pointless hours on metal forums trying to discuss some of the finer points involved in the style of heavy metal. Unfortunately (and I say unfortunately because I believe that heavy metal, as with any other musical genre, has many many intricacies, and dare I say beauty) many of the metal forum inhabitants, including their administrators, seem to take it so 'preciously' that one simply can not discuss certain issues. A somewhat humorous example, I was banned from a forum on an American prog-metal band for attempting to discuss some political aspects of music. It was, however, perfectly ok to discuss one's pets on this forum - in fact there was quite a lengthy discussion about possible remedies for a cat that had a gammy leg! But I've digressed a bit here - possibly whinging!

Once again thanks for the happy welcome and comments

Lodro


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

#7 2009-04-05 21:34:04

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Lodro wrote:

Now onto my overwhelming question - I'm presuming that my feeling of 'spinning out' and breathlessness is what can happen in the early stages of playing. Yes? And that gradually as my embouchure becomes more refined that  the overly abundant air from my lungs will become more efficient and less wasted. This is where I'm at, at the moment. Along with the 7 notes I can vaguely play ;-)

Comments would be most welcome here.

Hi Lodro, flute (in general, both transverse and shakuhachi) tends to waste more air for beginners than the reed instruments. But, there is some transferance between the instruments in that the key to developing a good tone is to practice long tones. You already figured that out. One big difference though is the amount and type of breath support you need with flutes. There's a lot less back pressure with flute playing. You could possibly develop an OK sounding but thin tone if you don't take some extra effort to see how much more sound you can get out of the instrument. I'd suggest experimenting a few minutes each practice session playing loud. It might not sound too good but you might hear some positive things in it that you can strive to develop as you refine your embouchure to gain control and waste less air.     

Lodro wrote:

Other than a slight (but annoying) movement at the joint it is proving to be quite wonderful. On this joint deficiency, is there anything that can be done about it? The actual connection is quite tight (even with petroleum jelly applied) but there is, however, movement. The movement isn't 'rotational' movement, rather it's 'lateral-medial' movement . It doesn't happen with normal playing at all, just occasionally in handling. Should I try to sort it out or just accept it?

A lot of people like to use plumber's teflon tape to wrap around loose joints to tighten them. On a recent thread someone said they used cellophane tape to tighten a Yuu joint, but I'd guess that the teflon tape might work better, I think it's thinner, more maliable and slippery too, all the characteristics you need for tightening connections on loose tubes that are supposed to fit into one another. I was pretty surprised to see how easy it was to find when I went into the hardware store, there was a lot of it promenently displayed and it was only 50 cents or so. It's pretty amazing stuff.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

Offline

 

#8 2009-04-05 22:42:59

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

radi0gnome wrote:

A lot of people like to use plumber's teflon tape to wrap around loose joints to tighten them. On a recent thread someone said they used cellophane tape to tighten a Yuu joint, but I'd guess that the teflon tape might work better, I think it's thinner, more maliable and slippery too, all the characteristics you need for tightening connections on loose tubes that are supposed to fit into one another. I was pretty surprised to see how easy it was to find when I went into the hardware store, there was a lot of it promenently displayed and it was only 50 cents or so. It's pretty amazing stuff.

Actually the joint is quite tight, but there is still movement (sideways not rotational). It's as if the bore segments aren't quite right. I'll give the teflon a go anyway. Is this good enough reason to send instrument back and get it sorted out with manufacturer? However from my experience with ANYTHING that needs to be repaired, once you send it back it either comes back worse or else at the best is simply the same as it was before you sent it back.

Thanks

Lodro


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

#9 2009-04-05 23:40:33

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

I was taught to use bee's wax to do the job and it has always worked well for me. Does anybody else use bee's wax?


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 

#10 2009-04-06 12:00:08

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Lodro wrote:

To be more specific on the instrument I bought, it is a Shakuhachi Yuu made by Andrew Macgregor. It was the affordable item at the time (as I wanted to experience the Shakuhachi experience first before moving on to a more proficient instrument). Other than a slight (but annoying) movement at the joint it is proving to be quite wonderful. On this joint deficiency, is there anything that can be done about it? The actual connection is quite tight (even with petroleum jelly applied) but there is, however, movement. The movement isn't 'rotational' movement, rather it's 'lateral-medial' movement . It doesn't happen with normal playing at all, just occasionally in handling. Should I try to sort it out or just accept it?

Since the Yuu is fabricated using an injection-molding machine, it's likely that what you have is a slight defect in the shape of the joint (which is called a nakatsuge, btw), either in the male or female aspect, or both, which occurred in the machine or in the fitting process. I would not send it back to Andrew MacGregor (who, btw, just sells 'em, doesn't make 'em), as he will just have to send it back to the distributor or manufacturer. Perhaps he'd be kind enough to replace it with one with a solid joint.

The joint can be repaired, but it should be done by someone who knows what they're doing, and that may cost nearly as much as the Yuu did. I'd either learn to live with it (if you can't get an exchange), or glue the joint permanently if you don't really think you need to be taking it apart.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#11 2009-04-06 17:55:00

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

I have had trouble with a couple Yuu I got for students. I think they made a bad run and sent them all to Australia!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#12 2009-04-06 20:12:33

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Tairaku wrote:

I have had trouble with a couple Yuu I got for students. I think they made a bad run and sent them all to Australia!

Well that's reassuring isn't it? And I was lucky enough to get one of them ;-)

Edosan - I can live with it but would rather not, I tend to take an Eastern approach to these things - the instrument may play perfectly well on the surface but my mind (part of the instrument) now has a fault in it, therefore my instrument is functioning at less than it's full potential (or something like that). At any rate I'll write to Andrew and see what can be done. I've got no real need to take the instrument apart so might see about an exchange for a solid joint model, or glue it!

Thanks for all your help

Lodro


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

#13 2009-04-06 20:45:20

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Lodro wrote:

Edosan - I can live with it but would rather not, I tend to take an Eastern approach to these things - the instrument may play perfectly well on the surface but my mind (part of the instrument) now has a fault in it, therefore my instrument is functioning at less than it's full potential (or something like that). At any rate I'll write to Andrew and see what can be done. I've got no real need to take the instrument apart so might see about an exchange for a solid joint model, or glue it!

Lodro

I completely understand; that would probably be my stance, as well.

If you do decide to glue it, just be sure to clean the mating surfaces well of any contaminants—rubbing alcohol can work well for this, as well as soap and warm water, of course—and use a good quality 5-minute or half-hour epoxy, applied only to the male part, that way none will enter the bore. Keep a paper towel wet with rubbing alcohol handy to wipe up any epoxy that appears—it's a perfect thinner/cleaner for uncured epoxy. Set it down, and walk away for some tea.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#14 2009-04-06 22:22:55

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

This proves once again why nobe is better.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#15 2009-04-06 23:04:12

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

This proves once again why nobe is better.

You are SUCH a weeniehead...

...and a nudge.

Last edited by edosan (2009-04-06 23:09:49)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#16 2009-04-06 23:37:27

Lodro
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2009-04-02
Posts: 105

Re: Hi from Adelaide Australia - here's what I do

Tairaku wrote:

This proves once again why nobe is better.

As a newbie I knew nothing of nobe ;-)


Each part of the body should be connected to every other part.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google