Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Nyogetsu wrote:

I supported myself by teaching English in Kyoto, but I fear that it has become more difficult in recent years.

I've heard this from many who used to live in Japan couple of decades ago. What has changed since? Are there already so many fluent english speakers that there is no longer market for teachers?

Nyogetsu wrote:

Again, being so fortunate to be in the "cyber" age, another type of teaching I originated started with teaching via cassette 25 years ago. Now, thanks to the computer, I have 80 students altogether n 28 states and 8 foreign countries.

Internet and all that comes with it has certainly changed things quite a bit. Whereas before you had to find a teacher and get to lessons, today you can just call him and do things that way. I wouldn't be surprised if there were many teachers whose students were mainly taking Internet lessons.

As a teacher, do you feel that remote lessons in whatever form are a potential way to properly learn to play? Or, to put the question in another way, could you see someone becoming professional (whatever that means is up to debate) by mainly taking remote lessons?

Rigth now I'm facing an interesting problem. I can either move to live somewhere where there is a teacher close by and stay there for potentially long time or I can try to take lessons over Internet and push the real life lessons to later date. I'm hoping to be able to stay in Finland for at least a couple of years. I'm planning to apply to the japanese language and culture chapter in the local university here on the upcoming summer. If I manage to get in I would basically have to spend some time in Japan as part of studies eventually and it would make life easier in there. The only downside is that I'd be stuck without regular access to a teacher up until that point.

Does this sound crazy? If not, are there any suggestions that anyone could offer? Would Internet lessons work well enough for a beginner like me to get started on learning?

Hi amokrun,
As a response to your interest in hearing from people who learned shakuhachi in Japan:
I came to Japan 21 years ago, not with the intention to learn anything in particular, but rather to experience something that was quite different than I had been experiencing in Canada up until then.  I came with my first wife and two young kids with the prospect of taking over a few private English teaching classes of an American who was returning to the U.S.  I had never done any teaching in my life up until that time.
My wife and I had agreed to give it a year, thinking that would be minimally enough to understand whether we wanted to continue there or not.  Though we had sold everything we had in Canada at the time just to muster up enough for air fare, we naively thought that our thinking was realistic.
After the first year came and went, we realized that one year was nowhere near enough time there and decided just to play it by ear.  The one thing that I thoroughly enjoyed was the huge amount of free time that I had.  This was something I had never really experienced before.  The free time had also allotted me the opportunity to experience something of the cultural traditions.  Being a saxophone/flute player, I decided with the aid of my needs to find a means to actually stay longer, to study something of the musical traditions.  One of my English students told me that his father was studying something called the shakuhachi.  I had no idea what it was, but when I learned that it was a bamboo flute, I thought I would give it a go.  The student's father introduced me to his teacher, Tsurugi Kyomudo.  Kyomudo sensei, not knowing how to deal with this foreigner, passed me on to his son who was a budding teacher, Tsurugi Kodo.  I've been his deshi for 20 years now.  Needless to say, we grew together and he continues to be a source of inspiration.  There seems to be no end to the depths of this instrument and the world that exists around it.
For a long time, I suppose I was not the ideal student, but one thing that could be said for me is that I persisted. 
I continue to teach English mostly at the university level now.  That ability seems to have grown as well over time.  However, I decided some years ago to start accepting shakuhachi students.  I always say that that choice was integral in improving my ability at playing. 
I continue.

Yungflutes wrote:

Yes, I often think about my own experience in Japan. There's too much to write about so I just save notes for the novel when I retire.

Do put me on the pre-order list. I figure that by being early I am guaranteed to get one before they become sold out. :-)

One question though. Was it difficult for you to get yourself there in first place and get everything running? Getting everything set up, finding a place to live in and figuring out a way to support yourself would seem to be the hardest parts of getting started. After all of that is taken care of I can see everyhing falling into place. This is the part that most people leave out of their stories, most likely because they are saving it for the novel...

Thank you for your comments. This goes for everyone who told their story. It's really interesting to read how people got where they are today. Someone really needs to start working on a book and send me a copy.

Disclaimer: I am not a Pro.

In response to the question of the post title:

"How did you become a pro?"

I must ask : "What is a pro?"

Usually a 'professional' is considered someone who earns his or her living from that activity.

So do you mean a professional performer of shakuhachi?  As far as I can tell there are only half a dozen or so people in the world today who can live up to this criteria.  (And, I think, only one of them is non-Japanese.) Forum members:  Please let me know if I am wrong here.

Or do you mean a professional teacher of shakuhachi?  Here the circle widens quite a bit but it is still a very exclusive club.

I apologize for being the official forum grinch with this post but it seems that if you wish to be a professional shakuhachi performer or teacher in the original sense of the term 'professional' you need to dedicate yourself nearly full-time as quickly as possible, with a teacher near by, to shakuhachi studies.   Earning your living from any art is very difficult and requires - as far as I can tell - some really brave decisions.  (I would never have had Ronnie's courage and optimism to just decide at age 26 to be a Shakuhachi teacher.  How on earth did he know he could earn a living?!?) If this is your goal you will need to grab this beast by the neck as soon as you can and don't look left or right for a second.

However, if by pro you meant "someone who sounds really great on the shakuhachi" that is another journey all together, which, thankfully, has a far more forgiving path. 

Or did you mean by pro someone with a 'teaching license?' That's also another conversation...

edosan wrote:

Pros, by any definition (non-Japanese; honorifics omitted):

(snip)

...and others, who escape memorly at present.

You left out my teacher, Gunnar Linder, who I believe fits into that category almost regardless of how you define it. He belongs into the smaller group of people who have also formally studied shakuhachi at university level and holds an official degree on top of his shihan license. I have nothing but respect towards him. He has inspired me in many ways that are not limited to just playing technique. He doesn't earn a living by playing, true, but then again, he doesn't have to.

http://www.komuso.com/people/Linder,_Gunnar_Jinmei.html

As for how to define a pro, I left that vague on purpose. Personally I hate the term because it reminds me of the money rather than the art. It is right there with "grand master" and other such titles which tend to amuse me in most situations. What I'm talking about here is a certain level of skill at an art rather than a way to make a quick buck. I don't think that anyone does this in hopes of getting rich. I'm also under no delusion that playing shakuhachi is going to pay a single bill. I'm not the kind of person who is motivated by money and I'd much rather do something I enjoy even if it means getting by with less. Doing something just because you feel that you need to make a living produces grumpy people who become bitter in the long run. We have enough of those in the world already in my honest opinion.

To make it clearer, I do not want to become a teacher, professional or otherwise. I do not wish to sell recordings of my music. I don't want a certificate with my name on it regardless of what it says. I do not wish to perform professionally for money. All I wish to do is play and be proud of the result. The rest follows naturally. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't accept a certificate if my teacher eventually gave me one or that I would refuse to play somewhere if asked. I might refuse to record an album though but that's another discussion. It simply means that those things don't matter much to me, not in the way playing does.

As far as the reference to Nyogetsu's post, rest assured that I'm not even dreaming of following in his footsteps. Apart from his courage to just go for it, I also lack his dedication and skill for teaching. Maybe it is something that develops over time but I have never been much of a teacher of anything really. It is one thing to be good at what you do and another to be able to pass that on to someone. I have but respect for people who can do it. Yet, I feel that there are other roads that one can take to reach different goals. One advantage I have is that much like Nyogetsu when he started I'm still fairly young at 23 with almost precisely two years of playing behind me now. I can't say for sure but if I had to guess I'd say that I'm the youngest student my teacher currently has outside of Japan. This, hopefully, gives me enough time to find my own place along this long road.

Again, thank you to everyone who has posted their thoughts. It means a lot to me.

Last edited by amokrun (2007-11-18 12:05:03)

Mujitsu wrote:

I sold my first flute to a Mystic Shop owner on Haight Street in San Francisco. As I recall, I think he was experimenting with hallucinogens at the time of the purchase. I wasn't working much at the time and living on air. House painting, sign painting, etc. I thought I could have a go at being a shakuhachi maker.

You know, I've been sitting at work for about 12 hours now. It's been really, really boring. When I read this I burst out laughing so hard that I got coffee all over this keyboard. The upside is that it looks a bit cleaner now than it did before. What you need to do is take advice from Perry and get working on a book. Put this part to the back of the book and it sells like hotcakes, guaranteed.

Mujitsu wrote:

Although the shakuhachi life can be trying financially, it is the honesty of the work that is most rewarding. One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work.

I get what you are saying and agree. Like I said before, I'm not trying to improve for money. I also get by with very little. Attitude like yours and that of everyone I've talked to regarding this makes me respect this community even more. As I said to Tairaku earlier, a good way to tell if you should get involved in something is to take a look at the people who are already doing it and think if you'd like to be like them.

Thanks for the story. Do put me on the pre-order list of your book as well.

"As a teacher, do you feel that remote lessons in whatever form are a potential way to properly learn to play? Or, to put the question in another way, could you see someone becoming professional (whatever that means is up to debate) by mainly taking remote lessons? "

On the subject of remote lessons (in any form);
I do not think that they are as good as face-to-face lessons, however, you can properly learn if sufficiently motivated. Over a course of years I taught Phil Nyokai James SOLELY through cassette lessons (with the exception of only a handful of "in person" lessons). Now, its true that Phil is an exceptional musician, but anyone who has heard him play can see that it is quite possible to teach someone successfully in this fashion.

And on the subject of why "teaching English in Japan has become increasingly more difficult", my thoughts are that the difficulty is due to the fact that there are more "certified" English teachers in Japan, and there are more foreigners that want to do this as a career. When I first went over to Japan, you were able to teach as much English as you could handle - the only prerequisite being that you were born in an English-Speaking country!

How many hairs would you care to split?

When any of those people pick up a shakuhachi and plays it,
you know that they are 'pro', instantly.

eB

Last edited by edosan (2007-11-18 20:41:14)

Seth wrote:

But if you use the definition of professional as "earning his or her living from shakuhachi" then the club sadly gets far more exclusive.

The problem I have with this logic is that it tends to mean that quite a few people are professionals at doing all sorts of stuff. Say, right now I'm working as a janitor during weekends at a school near me. It is my primary income while I study. Since I earn my living from doing that right now I would basically be a professional janitor.

Another problem is that someone who is absolutely horrible player could theoretically make a lot of money by playing shakuhachi or with something else that is directly related to shakuhachi. They would thus be professionals even though their playing skills leave a lot to be desired.

This is why I said earlier that I dislike titles like "professional". If we go by what dictionary says (I know, bad idea in some cases):

1: a person engaged in one of the learned professions [syn: professional person]
2: an athlete who plays for pay [syn: pro] [ant: amateur]
3: an authority qualified to teach apprentices [syn: master]

I think numbers 1 and 3 match roughly what I'd like to think is a professional. I'd go as far as to say that one can be a professional shakuhachi player and/or teacher without ever really playing for money at all. If someone who studied for fifty years just decided to stop playing in front of people entirely I would still prefer to call him a professional. He isn't making any money but he certainly can play.

Seth wrote:

Please note that this is not a reflection on the artistic ability of these accomplished people.  To be an accomplished player you need to dedicate the years and of course bring a good amount of talent to the table.  But to earn a living at an art also means someone else needs to value it enough to hand you some money so you can eat.    Therefore, when you delve into it, the small number of people who earn a living from performing shakuhachi is actually far more telling of the tastes of society than it is of the abilities of shakuhachi performers.

It is also worth asking if all of these people are actually even trying to make a living by playing. I know my teacher is a professor at a university and teaches japanese. He doesn't necessarily need to make a living by playing nor does he really have time to do it. Whether or not it could be done is another interesting debate of course. If we think of it theoretically, one could for example play in a traditional band that makes recordings and sells them. Given the raising popularity of all things eastern you might actually stand a chance at making some money from being different. Who knows.

Seth wrote:

Of course there is nothing wrong at all with using the definition of "he's a fantastic player, therefore he is a pro" but I just thought in the context of providing someone advice on how to plan his career that this was an important distinction to clarify.

It is good that you pointed it out. I kind of wish that I had explained things better in my original post.

Seth wrote:

I think from now on I will sign all of my posts as Mr. Grinch as this conversation really has forced me to be quite the negative fellow. My apologies.

No need to apologize. What you are bringing out is certainly important and I had to spend some time considering what you have said. Sometimes one has to bring out the negative side of things.

Seth wrote:

I had my first job when I was 11. I worked two hours a day every day after school and on weekends delivering newspapers.  When I was 15 I started my second job working evenings as a dish washer at a local restaurant.  Later I worked my way through college as a waiter.  And after much more work I am now a director at a corporation where I often work 60 hours a week. Therefore please understand that from where I come from the issue of whether or not you can earn a living from a profession is not a minor issue, a hair split or a meaningless distinction – it is actually a major issue.

I must say that I've been lucky in that I haven't had to work much in young age. I can understand your point of view on this. On the other hand, I feel that there are different lifestyles that require one to make varying amounts of money. For example, I do not own or plan to own a car. I do not and will not have any children. I generally live a fairly simple life and I'm quite happy with that. My lifestyle doesn't force me to earn a lot.

Seth wrote:

But I think you all got my point:  "professional" is a somewhat unclear term, and "shakuhachi professional" brings with it even more grey territory.  I find terms such as "Expert" and "Master" and "licensed teacher" far clearer.

I would agree with this. You get similar terminology problems with many other traditional arts. I think it would sound a bit strange to call someone who has officially become a Zen monk a "Zen professional". The term professional sometimes feels like a poor fit to something like this which often isn't done for the money.

Seth wrote:

And Amokrun:  Good luck on your admirable and very realistic goals.  You have both youth and ambition on your side which bodes very well for your future.

Thank you. I'll keep your advice in mind and I'm sure it proves to be valuable in time.

Hello everyone.  I read Amokrun's initial post and the next one but then skipped all the rest and will go and read through them later...it looks like quite an interesting topic.  First of all, a disclaimer; I don't consider myself a professional as I don't make my living from playing shakuhachi and I don't feel like my playing is up to the level of the real 'pros' but Tairaku was kind enough to include my name on the list perhaps as I have gone through the process of getting a shihan menkyo in Japan.  I came to Japan twenty-one years ago primarily to experience life here and do some traveling around the country as I had spent some of my formative years in Japan and was interested in seeing the place as an adult.  I got a two year contract job teaching high school and junior school, taking over the position from a childhood friend of mine, and it was during that first year in Japan on my first visit to Kyoto that I saw and heard the shakuhachi for the first time.  It wasn't until some months later that by chance I ran into a Japanese guy carrying a flute in Kochi's Nichioichi (Sunday outdoor market); he was friend of a potter who spoke English and sold his wares at the market, and this Japanese fellow would hang out regularly at the potter's booth.  Kei, who has since become a Zen monk,  told me he was learning shakuhachi from a teacher in Kochi and offered to introduce me to him.  It turned out that the sensei was a member of the Japanese Jeitai, or Self Defense Forces, and did not charge money for shakuhachi lessons since he was a government employee; he just charged us for the tea, which was 2000 yen a month.  At that time I could afford that, though I didn't have the money to buy a flute, so I played a plastic pvc for a year.  After a year's time I got married, dropped my lessons for a few months but then I came across a used shakuhachi going for a cheap price in a traditional instrument shop and I bought that and got more serious about learning the flute.  So my teacher was the first one to appear; later I would run into other teachers in the same town but in Japan if you are known as one teacher's student then generally you remain with that teacher and changing your sensei (at least in the town where you live) is not something easily accomplished.  I came to Japan with the intention of staying only two years but after finishing my high school contract I started teaching English for a conversation school and a computer school, as well as privately as I enjoyed living here; there was a close knit expat community at that time and several of us gaijin began learning shakuhachi.  In my fifth year in Japan I made a conscious decision to stay a few more years in order to keep studying shakuhachi and iaido (though several years later following the birth of our second child I dropped out of the latter).  Luckily I eventually got my foot in the door at a local university and after four and half years of teaching English at one university (plus kindergarten, private lessons, and eikaiwa) part time I managed to get a full time teaching position at another school, the better to support my shakuhachi habit.  It wasn't until playing for seven years that I ran into any shakuhachi teachers outside of Kochi, when I managed to make it up to the first shakuhachi international festival at Bisei, and I didn't return there for over four years, until after the big event in Colorado, where I made the acquaintance of Yokoyama's deshi and started going to the yearly workshops at Bisei.  I feel that I've learned at a faster rate from meeting with different players and attending weekend workshops or shakuhachi festivals than in my years of training with one sensei so I would recommend finding a teacher that you want to emulate and learn from him/her but also take advantage of seminars, workshops, or other gatherings of shakuhachi players where you can listen and learn from variety of people.  It may be something of a cliche but the Western way of learning seems to be somewhat different from the Japanese and I think Westerners (including myself) may prefer or be used to more verbal explanation of  things.  I was lucky in having a translator for several years, the fellow that introduced me to my sensei but I missed out on a lot of things initially as I didn't always understand what my sensei was trying to tell me...now my Japanese is considerably better...   I'd recommend learning to play from Kinko, Tozan, and Western (maybe even Chikuho?) notation early in your training.  I also agree with Geni in his suggestion about the usefulness of some lessons in Western music too.  Practice everyday.  If you want to try and go pro then practice at least about six hours a day; that's what people like John Kaizan Neptune and Alcvin Ramos did.   There are various degrees offered at some universities which could be helpful -- perhaps in ethnomusicology or performance; I believe there's an MA course in Australia in shakuhachi now.  I guess Riley Lee would know about that...  There's always Tokyo's University of Fine Arts; I think Japanese language skills would be important for that one; I guess maybe your sensei has told you about that.   Good luck!

Mujitsu wrote:

One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work.

I liked this line so much, I put it in my sig. I hope you don't mind.