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#1 2009-04-30 10:11:03

jaybeemusic
Member
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 145

Deepest Meri?

Hey everyone,

i was messing around with my Yuu and i was just experimenting with my meri's and seeing how far down i can go.....

playing TSU....which should be F...i was able to shade the hole and dip my head and get a C#.....below RO....... is that about average?   Or should i be able to go lower than that?

just wondering how deep should you be able to go in your meri's?

i searched the forum and haven't found anything on this so any help would be appreciated.

thanks  smile

jacques


It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people "think" that you're stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

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#2 2009-04-30 12:26:42

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

I'm a beginner too and that's about as far as I can get it. From shading alone it depends on the flute but most of the shorter standard bore and standard hole size ones I have I can get down only about a half step. Then from head tilt I can get them down another full step. Notes that are higher on the flute but still in otsu I can get down a little further.

I've seen some pros and advanced students here say that they can get down quite a bit futher, I think in one of Peter Kororo's posts he said he can get Tsu down below Ro without shading.

In fact, I just found Peter's post, here's the quote:

Peter Kororo wrote:

I find I can play an open-hole otsu tsu and flatten it (without half-holing) to ro dai meri pitch (C).

I found it here: http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopi … 82&p=2

If you do a search on "possum" using the forum search tool you can find some other interesting stuff about dai meri's of Tsu down to Re.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2009-05-01 21:10:42

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

Jaybeemusic wrote:

I was messing around with my Yuu and i was just experimenting with my meri's and seeing how far down i can go.....
playing TSU....which should be F...i was able to shade the hole and dip my head and get a C#.....below RO....... is that about average?   Or should i be able to go lower than that?

.
       That's not bad at all. I'm sure you'll be able to go deeper soon but that's good. Just make a game of it. Try getting the c# without half holing as an objective. If you can that then the others should be falling too. Although, flutes avry a bit. Here's one way to look at it:You need to practice getting lower than the notes you need to play in the song. If you have to play a tsu meri at B flat then you should practice being able to reach well below B flat. The reason being is that when you are playing it in a song from beginning to end without stopping, you might not have your normal practice conditions to operate in. You can/should count on the different situations to make the pitch go up: For example,  just playing the song from beginning to end is different than isolated meri practice; you might be playing in front of people and be excited; spotlights are hot; your body tightens up too in a different situation, etc. etc. There are many more different situations that you could be in that are not your normal relaxed condition and they all seem to account for the pitch raising.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#4 2009-05-01 23:11:17

Elliot K
Member
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 132
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

chikuzen wrote:

If you have to play a tsu meri at B flat then you should practice being able to reach well below B flat.

...Michael, I'm relatively sure you meant E-flat, yes?

(on a 1.8, of course)

Last edited by Elliot K (2009-05-01 23:26:37)

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#5 2009-05-02 08:59:12

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

yes.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#6 2009-05-12 08:59:42

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

You can/should count on the different situations to make the pitch go up:

Like coming to a meri note after several keri notes (also the other way around, coming to a keri after a meri often means the pitch won't be as sharp as it needs to be).  I also find that longer songs tend to wear at my attention span (SPAZ), and as I move into the song I can become more complacent about energetically changing the angle of my chin and keeping all the P's and Q's up, like finger pressure and placement.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#7 2009-05-12 22:40:21

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

I recall Yamaguchi Goro's words during his master class at the Boulder Festival, ' you have to learn to love meri notes'.  It seemed a bit pedantic at the time, but I completely understand his admonition now.

Last edited by Jeff Cairns (2009-05-12 22:40:44)


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#8 2009-05-12 23:52:04

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

what year was that?

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#9 2009-05-13 01:18:34

Elliot K
Member
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 132
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

geni wrote:

what year was that?

1998

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#10 2009-05-13 10:12:18

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

I think one of the things that draws me to the shaluhachi is the interplay between the meri and keri notes.  I like the way the softer meris vary the rhythm within some pieces.  The deepest meris are accompanied by the finest breath, which seems to necessitate a lower volume to some degree, although that is covered in another thread.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#11 2009-05-25 20:07:24

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

i would like to share with you my favorite meri-kari exercise. I learned that from Horzt!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8j9gglSlt4

Yours truly playing the salt container

Geni

Last edited by geni (2009-05-25 21:52:21)

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#12 2009-05-25 23:08:40

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Deepest Meri?

geni wrote:

i would like to share with you my favorite meri-kari exercise. I learned that from Horzt!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8j9gglSlt4

Yours truly playing the salt container

Geni

Nice drone, too. Works even better with a beer bottle with about three inches of the beer removed smile


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#13 2009-05-26 08:33:33

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

Works even better with a beer bottle with about three inches of the beer removed

But it's sooo hard to stop at three inches.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#14 2009-05-26 12:08:56

Riley Lee
Moderator
From: Manly NSW Australia
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 78
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

In Hawaii in the 1980s, our club regularly practiced on big jinashi sake-hachis. They produced much deeper and more complex meri notes than what you get with the smaller beer-hachis, though they required more air, the reaction time was slower and the volume of sound was generally less.

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#15 2009-05-26 13:36:17

Vevolis
Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

lowonthetotem wrote:

Works even better with a beer bottle with about three inches of the beer removed

But it's sooo hard to stop at three inches.

Use Coors Light aka the tears of 1000 orphans. It tastes of sadness.

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#16 2009-05-26 17:25:55

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Deepest Meri?

Vevolis wrote:

lowonthetotem wrote:

Works even better with a beer bottle with about three inches of the beer removed

But it's sooo hard to stop at three inches.

Use Coors Light aka the tears of 1000 orphans. It tastes of sadness.

[I rescind everything I said earlier; you may have any and all liquids you desire....]


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#17 2009-05-26 20:28:10

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Deepest Meri?

i will try some more shaku-beer in the weekend.
Riley is there any recording of those sessions?

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#18 2009-05-27 15:03:28

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Deepest Meri?

geni wrote:

i will try some more shaku-beer in the weekend.
Riley is there any recording of those sessions?

Probably only in the (somewhat suspect) memories of the players involved.


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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