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#26 2009-08-25 11:21:12

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

ssakamoto wrote:

...

One thought I had was, what is a shakuhachi player? If you noodle for a year and a half, but can not play sakura, does that count? It doesn’t really matter, I know it is a personal thing, but it was so strange. I have been learning that there is one way, the right way, to play. Then I meet this guy who cant even do scales, but plays a fairly pleasant jazzy kind of stuff on his own. There is no question that his noodling was a heck of a lot nicer to listen to than me struggling my ass off to get through rokudan. Someday I will be able to play that piece nicely, but right now…my six year old son tells me I suck, and he is right.

Hey Sean,
LOL! I'm there man. Keep at it. My older daughter never thought much of it until I did a presentation for her kindergarten class. I scored a lot of cool daddy points afterwards when her classmates and teachers huddled around asking questions.

A shakuhachi player can be many things. You mentioned two approaches - spiritual and musical. The musical approach is easily measured and defined since there are professional standards. Even at the base level, we can all judge what is good by personal taste. That, of course, depends upon the listener's level of indoctrination or exposure to the music etc... (as a young man, I didn't care for German opera but I find these days Richard Wagner's works fascinating).

The spiritual approach, however, is very difficult to understand. I have had some old Edo period Jinashi flutes made by monks that have come through the shop. Most of them did not react at all like the modern flutes today. The tunings on some of these were questionable at best when applied to today's musical understanding. However, all of them had very worn finger holes and finger marks due to being being held hours on end for many many years. I always wonder what kind of music the makers made these flutes to play and what did the owners get out of them. For me, these old flutes provide a glimpse into the world of the shakuhachi that is far more interesting than how good a player I can become.

Back to your question - what is a shakuhachi player? Hmmm, I'll know one when I hear one! smile

Namaste, Perry

Last edited by Yungflutes (2009-08-25 13:20:41)


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#27 2009-08-25 12:16:53

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

Hi Jim
I was glad just to know of the wood. Lovely name I always thought, hickory. Did you know, the iceman discovered in the Alps who lived over 5000 years ago, was carrying 18 different types of wood? When people speak of the time before metal they call it the stone age, but maybe we should call it the wood age. Something nice about old technology.

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#28 2009-08-25 18:52:47

ABRAXAS
Member
Registered: 2009-01-17
Posts: 353

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

Nice posts ssakamoto and Perry!


"Shakuhachi music stirs up both gods and demons." -- Ikkyu.

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#29 2009-08-26 05:44:23

ssakamoto
Member
From: Gujo Hachiman, Gifu-ken, Japan
Registered: 2009-02-01
Posts: 43
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

Hi Justin,
That was a great reply. Thanks so much. Because I'm totally new to learning how to play an instrument, all these topics are a discovery. I'm a writer and never paid much attention to how music was actually made. Your explanation of virtuosity/skill vs. ease or mastery of a certain piece is very well explained.

I see myself as more of a slogger for now. I think I'll be doing a lot of work just to get to a point where I can have a few melodies that become mine to play with a sense of ease. This is really fun for me, learning all this about music, practice, learning and the shakuhachi. A BIG thanks to all you folks who have been at this for years and are still willing to discuss the very basics with a newbie. I really, really appreciate it.


"One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work." -- Mujitsu

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#30 2009-08-26 08:16:53

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

Great post, ssakamoto. I really like writing that raises questions rather than trying to declare an answer.

ssakamoto wrote:

There is no question that his noodling was a heck of a lot nicer to listen to than me struggling my ass off to get through rokudan.

As a musician, I suspect I would prefer hearing your struggles with Rokudan to the other player's light-weight noodling.

Doing what comes easily has its rewards, but for many there is a greater joy that comes from years or decades of discipline. In our culture many people set themselves up as professional players or teachers after only a few years of study -- you can get away with it because we've grown up with the notion of marketing ourselves. If we take a really hard look at ourselves, we may be surprised at the extent to which we even engage in subtly deceptive self-marketing practices. But if playing this instrument is somehow "spiritual," I think that spirituality is at least in part in the ongoing process, in the long-term struggle to play every day no matter what the circumstances and to keep bringing attention to every detail in every moment of playing. "Getting better" does not necessarily mean playing more likable licks, it means developing one's ability to pay full attention to each moment and as a result to become one with the sound. It means getting more and more comfortable over the years with dedicating a significant part of one's life to the practice. In a way, it means BECOMING music rather than just playing at it. I do not think there is any shortcut to this, because the integration of musical and other life experience is what makes for artistic depth.

I love playing with highly professional older musicians who are more experienced than I am, who have been around the block a few hundred more times than I have. There is a quality of assurance, of comfort, of working on the depth rather than the flash, a simple honest "this is my life" expression that is spiritual without ever needing to say the word.

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#31 2009-08-26 10:41:35

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

nyokai wrote:

In our culture many people set themselves up as professional players or teachers after only a few years of study -- you can get away with it because we've grown up with the notion of marketing ourselves. If we take a really hard look at ourselves, we may be surprised at the extent to which we even engage in subtly deceptive self-marketing practices.

Bingo! This is something I've grappled with for years. When is it appropriate? When is it not? And when is it just plain self deception? Always tough questions. One thing that gradually makes it easier is that humility finds a way of growing along side improvement.

nyokai wrote:

"Getting better" does not necessarily mean playing more likable licks, it means developing one's ability to pay full attention to each moment and as a result to become one with the sound. It means getting more and more comfortable over the years with dedicating a significant part of one's life to the practice. In a way, it means BECOMING music rather than just playing at it. I do not think there is any shortcut to this, because the integration of musical and other life experience is what makes for artistic depth.

Yeah. As Horst says, "No rewards. Shut up and file the root!"

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#32 2009-08-26 19:03:44

ssakamoto
Member
From: Gujo Hachiman, Gifu-ken, Japan
Registered: 2009-02-01
Posts: 43
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

Perry, I missed your post the first time around. Congrats on being the superdad in class. I played kimigayo at my son's kindergarten graduation here in Japan, and I was shocked when I was halfway through and the parents began to sing! I was really moved that there was a reaction to the music.

nyokai, you really nailed it. I didn't have the idea fully formed, but you precisely described why I like learning the way that I am. I'm a writer, and I worked in advertising in NYC for over a decade. My entire career was based on pure bullshit. I sat through marketing meetings with lots of jargon being passed around. I met with consultants, I talked the talk. But it was all so slippery. Was I writing good copy? Who the heck knew? When clients made changes, I had no idea if they were hurting or helping the ads I was writing. It all seemed so made up, all the time.

I felt like I needed to impress people, to seem smarter than I am, to be clever, witty, charming, to kiss ass, to work for that paycheck. None of us never really deep down knew what was good and what was bad. We were all making it up. Now and then something really clicked, but the world of marketing and advertising is fraught with ambiguity and overcompensation.

The shakuhachi is trying really hard. Sucking at something over and over and over with nobody to impress. When I progress, I progress. To me, it is indisputable. When I don't, I still sat for 30 minutes and tried my damnedest. It feels so...honest. I'm not used to that, to putting in an honest effort, but that's what it is. I feel like it's helping me grow up, at the age of 40, better late than never!


"One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work." -- Mujitsu

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#33 2009-08-26 19:53:29

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

ssakamoto wrote:

I feel like it's helping me grow up, at the age of 40, better late than never!

For men, 40 is a very early age to grow up.

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#34 2009-08-26 20:57:44

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: A grea thesis to read regarding shakuhachi...

ssakamoto wrote:

Perry, I missed your post the first time around. Congrats on being the superdad in class. I played kimigayo at my son's kindergarten graduation here in Japan, and I was shocked when I was halfway through and the parents began to sing! I was really moved that there was a reaction to the music.

Sasa graduated from kindergarten this April. Life is good isn't it?

nyokai, you really nailed it. I didn't have the idea fully formed, but you precisely described why I like learning the way that I am. I'm a writer, and I worked in advertising in NYC for over a decade. My entire career was based on pure bullshit.

Yeah, there can be a lot of that in NYC, not only in advertising but the arts, theater...I'm surprised we never crossed paths! wink

The shakuhachi is trying really hard. Sucking at something over and over and over with nobody to impress.... It feels so...honest.

For me, it's next to the human voice and dance.

Take care my friend, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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