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#1 2009-09-09 05:07:37

ssakamoto
Member
From: Gujo Hachiman, Gifu-ken, Japan
Registered: 2009-02-01
Posts: 43
Website

Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

Hi everyone!

I can play go no hi as a C#, but when I try to play it  in the kan register, up higher, it becomes a squeaky D. Other notes I can go up with no problem, but I simply can't take my go no hi to the higher register.

Does anyone have any suggestion? The closest I've come is when I move my chin down as if I'm playing meri, but my teacher says 'dame' to that.

I could really use some tips. I'm spending a half hour a day pursing my lips, smiling, doing everything I can think of and I can't hit that C#.

Thanks for any tips!


"One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work." -- Mujitsu

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#2 2009-09-09 08:13:57

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

ssakamoto wrote:

Hi everyone!

I can play go no hi as a C#, but when I try to play it  in the kan register, up higher, it becomes a squeaky D. Other notes I can go up with no problem, but I simply can't take my go no hi to the higher register.

Does anyone have any suggestion? The closest I've come is when I move my chin down as if I'm playing meri, but my teacher says 'dame' to that.

I could really use some tips. I'm spending a half hour a day pursing my lips, smiling, doing everything I can think of and I can't hit that C#.

Thanks for any tips!

The funny thing about high notes is that practicing them too much is detrimental to your embouchure, so they can actually get worse with practice. Practice overblowing to get all the harmonics on each note. For example, blow an otsu Ro, then overblow to get to kan ro trying to get a smooth and clean transition to the higher note. Then overblow again to get something that should be close in pitch to a kan re, again trying to get the transition smooth (you can cheat on this one by quickly lifting the hole 3 finger to help get the sound, but doing that defeats the goal of a smooth transition). The smooth transition part is real important to practice because a lot of problems with high notes is that there is a tendency to over-tighten the embouchure on the attack, try to get up there with as little tension as possible. Take it easy practicing harmonics too, they are very strenuous on the lip muscles just like high note practice.

Another trick is to try the exercises Robert Dick put on youtube that edosan posted to this thread: http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=3929  They work well for shakuhachi too. Practice them in the easy range of the shakuhachi, the general tone improvement as a result of the exercises might help you pop out some high notes. My experience with the throat tuning exercises is that 5 minutes of practicing them makes my  tone simply awesome for a few minutes afterward, and that's when you might want to see what you can do with some high notes.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2009-09-09 08:27:23

Glenn Swann
Member
From: Central New Jersey
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 151
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

ssakamoto-
go no hi, whether otsu or kan, on a 1.8,  should be a D, not C#. The same pitch as RO. 1st off, you are talking about the fingering with the thumb hole open, and only the bottom 2 in otsu, the bottom 1 hole in kan, closed? Different flutes will have quite different pitches based on the height of the thumb hole- on most you have to kari somewhat  to get it up to D, but on some, as mine, are "neutral" or somewhat meri, else it becomes D#.

There is a go no hi no meri,  which would be C#, but I assume that's not what you are talking about.

All that being said, it is certainly more challenging to get a clear sound in kan than otsu, but it really just takes more and more refinement of the air stream, same way all of the higher kan and dai-kan notes take. I find it useful to imagine the hole in my lips being much smaller, with a sort of "funneling over" feeling in the upper lip. Also, though it sounds strange, imaging the sound for go no hi flying up and out through the back of your head, just where the spine and skull meet.


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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#4 2009-09-09 16:47:52

ssakamoto
Member
From: Gujo Hachiman, Gifu-ken, Japan
Registered: 2009-02-01
Posts: 43
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

Hi Glenn,
I am talking about the bottom hole only, the back hole open, in kan. I have a chart that calls it a C#, and my teacher seems to make a C#, but I play a D which is consistent with what you say. It's very confusing to me!

I'll keep trying and see what I can do. Thanks for the reply.


"One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work." -- Mujitsu

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#5 2009-09-09 21:40:05

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

ssakamoto,
I want to concur with Glenn here.  go no hi is D when played on a 1.8 and is essentially the same pitch as ha though with different timbre.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#6 2009-09-09 21:44:14

Glenn Swann
Member
From: Central New Jersey
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 151
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=698

fingering chart courtesy of edosan.

you'll see go no hi on the "RIGHT" section, as D. also note go no hi meri, which is C#. This is consistent with every chart I've seen, and also with how I've been taught- same pitch as RO, whatever size flute.    Perhaps the place your teacher is playing C# is actually go no hi meri?


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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#7 2009-09-11 08:32:06

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

Yes, that is a very good chart, but it also points out that fingering charts cannot be relied on completely on their own, without the advise of a teacher. For instance, that chart leaves out a very common fingering for u (only three open) and the common practice pitch of re no meri as F rather than F-sharp. This doesn't make it a bad chart -- it is clearer and more complete than most. But all charts should be taken as incomplete compilations of common practice within a particular lineage or group of several lineages, not as the ultimate "way it is."

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#8 2009-09-11 10:52:50

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

In the interest of being more accurate, has anyone ever heard of a sect playing Go no Hi anything other than D? SSkamoto-san, if the pitch is flat with the #1 & #2 closed, try opening the #2 hole. This is usually the highest D you get for this note. Some flutes work closing #1 only but since the #2 further up the flute the pitch will be higher.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#9 2009-09-11 15:12:47

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

Just to add a bit of friendly fuel to this brush fire, here's an excerpt of an old chart produced years ago by Tom Deaver, showing the high 'Go no...' section, with different fingerings and their enharmonic equivalents. Worth some study:

                        [Note that, contrary to the typical chart, the pitch rises from right to left, rather than from left to right.
                        Some arguments can be made about the degree of meri required for some of these, especially for
                        'San no Ha' (Eb), which most people finger by shading hole three with a slight meri.]

                       http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6874/gonohietc.jpg

                       [Also note that most people I know play 'Hi' and 'Go no Hi meri' with 1 and 2 closed.]

Last edited by edosan (2009-09-11 15:15:05)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#10 2009-09-15 03:22:32

ssakamoto
Member
From: Gujo Hachiman, Gifu-ken, Japan
Registered: 2009-02-01
Posts: 43
Website

Re: Looking for help with Go no Hi in the kan register.

Hi everyone,
I believe I misread my chart. The go no hi listed as a C# has a note that says it's a meri note. My Japanese sucks, so I missed that part. Thanks for your input, everyone. I have a really extensive chart, I'll try to take a photo of it sometime and upload it so that anyone interested can compare notes.

Now my new problem is go no ha!

sean


"One thing the bamboo tells you from the start is that it's going to take years and years and years. Better get to work." -- Mujitsu

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