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Continuing what Ken called 'glorious failures' I'd like to ask if some of you guys out there have embarked on a serious musical attempt and failed? Finally today standing on the underground platform at Holburn Station (London) - I realised fully that 2 of the 5 collaborations with composers I have worked on for the past 4 years were failures. They were simply not written for the jinashi shakuhachi and for this performer.
What a conclusion!
My project was a research project so it's ok as such - but musically these 2 pieces were certainly failures.
I think it will help on my mood if a perfomer who has gone through something like this told me how you got over your musical failures? Psychotherapy?
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Kiku,
First of all, 3 out of 5 ain't bad. Plus we can learn a lot from our failures so because a project failed doesn't necessarily mean it was a waste of time. One way to help get over some of our less rewarding or even traumatizing experiences is to understand how they occurred and therefore be able to avoid them in the future. When I was younger I felt like I had to take everything that came my way or I was somehow chickening out or not being a real warrior or not being supportive or whatever. But the old show biz adage " the show must go on" is not always true. For example, I remember you said one of the composers was late getting the music to you. If he doesn't care about his own music enough to give the performer every chance to do a good job screw him. Bail with pride. Why should you have to take the fall for him? Don't be guilted into feeling like your letting him down. He let you down and his own music down.
Sometimes people write stuff that just doesn't fit the instrument and I'm guessing when it comes to shakuhachi that's probably usually the case. I remember that Masa would get music from film composers and always had to adjust it to make it work for shakuhachi. Standing up there trying to play something that just doesn't fit the instrument can be an excruciating experience.
So our painful experiences can be used to teach us to spot hummers on approach and therefore be able to duck them. Don't put yourself in situations that are doomed before it even gets to you. You're the one who has to go on stage and "take it in the face". Protect yourself. Telling someone "no" can be a liberating experience, especially if you have people pleasing tendencies.
Hope you find some solace in these words. I think you got a lot of guts.
Cheers
Jim
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And, of course, there's always Bombay Sapphire...
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edosan wrote:
And, of course, there's always Bombay Sapphire...
Yeah, but you can't stay there.
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Kiku, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most music making is at best a "work in progress" and if it's not it lacks spontaneity. You're a shakuhachi player. If you don't want to "fail" the best thing is to stick to the classics and do good renditions of them. And you do some of that as your practice but you decided to extend your personal boundaries and those of the instrument. You can't expect everything that comes out of that, especially when it involves someone else like a composer, to turn out perfect.
Jim that's good advice, not to put yourself into situations where you won't come across well. Because the public never considers the situation, only the end result. Very professional thinking.
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Hi Jim and Tairaku.
Thanks for your answers and advice.
I can really see what you mean, Jim - not to say yes to bad projects that the performer would ultimately stand on stage with alone. However..... difficult when it is also the performer who had commissioned the composer. But it is worth thinking about - perhaps even say that there is this possibility before commissioning them.
Saying 'no' is something I have being practicing lately...
And yes, Tairaku - it is important not to loose spontaneity and keep on experimenting. And 3 good pieces for jinashi shakuhachi is not bad at all... The two other pieces are great pieces too, but just not what I was trying to do. One of the pieces has '... for shakuhachi, flute or recorder' in the title - so no wonder!
And I feel much better now after a good night's sleep. Ed, I did indeed take a glass of whisky - perhaps 1 cl - but I fell asleep and wasted my last fantastic drops of Croyden Gear. Oh well!
One person wrote to me that he has learned much more from failed projects than successful projects, because the success only confirmed what he already knew. So, onward....
Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-09-19 02:44:12)
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Kiku Day wrote:
One of the pieces has '... for shakuhachi, flute or recorder' in the title - so no wonder!
Geez! That means the piece is about notes, not sounds. Shakuhachi is as much or more about sound as about notes. Composer did not understand the mission.
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Tairaku wrote:
Kiku Day wrote:
One of the pieces has '... for shakuhachi, flute or recorder' in the title - so no wonder!
Geez! That means the piece is about notes, not sounds. Shakuhachi is as much or more about sound as about notes. Composer did not understand the mission.
I would think you would have to play shakuhachi to write for it or at least have a players understanding of the instrument.
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Hi Kiku, Great question.
My response is not about a failed musical attempt but about collaboration as I think the outcome is related. I work with a lot of artist all the time. The only thing I can say is that there is at least a 50% chance of failure each time. The thing I keep in mind is that even if the performance is wonderful the audience may not be on the ride with you for unrelated reasons, (worried about the baby sitter, dinner not sitting well etc..) but everyone takes home at least one thing from the evening. How you handled a particular note can be that one thing. But, you already knew that
I've done commercial shakuhachi recordings where I thought things could have gone better, but I recently landed another job from one of them. So you never know how the general public, or a producer, will experience something.
And yes, as Edo San reminded us, Tairaku's therapy can ease the hump...but as Jim wisely advises, "you can't stay there"
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I have had no failures with what I call "corporeal composers": those who are performers themselves and understand the primacy of sound over academic abstraction, the physicality of playing, and the instrument itself. I have turned down all projects that are through-notated by academic composers. Even a success doesn't feel like much of a success if my real community gets nothing but a small dose of intellectual interest out of the listening experience.
Some players, such as Kurahashi-sensei, think that as shakuhachi performers we should support, welcome, and work on all the compositions that come our way. I admire his generous attitude and professional dedication but respectfully take a different approach. I would rather try to move the literature forward -- or back -- to a more sensible corporeal approach, supporting only those composers who seem, to me, to "get it."
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Kiku Day wrote:
I think it will help on my mood if a perfomer who has gone through something like this told me how you got over your musical failures? Psychotherapy?
Kiku,
One way I've gotten over failure is a mindset of joy of the process without an attachment to it.
How to get better at non attachment? Failure!
Of course for me this concerns flute making. However, maybe it also applies to performing?
Ken
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Mujitsu wrote:
One way I've gotten over failure is a mindset of joy of the process without an attachment to it.
How to get better at non attachment? Failure!
That's a good one, Ken - how Zen is that?
The process was hard, but I guess when I am more detached from it, it will strongly feel like it has been worth it after all.
I have certainly learned some serious lessons in how to collaborate with composers. I suppose that has been the biggest aim... so not too bad after all - had it not been for the bad taste in my mouth when I listen back to the two 'failure pieces'.
It also clarified to me the limitations of this instrument (and my own playing). All good to know - I suppose.
I agree, Nyokai that you need composers who 'get it'. But one of them for example did not fully get it. The difference between him and the other two composers was that he was open for serious revisions of the score. And this piece - I think - ended with being the most successful one.
The 3 pieces I think can be added to what I call a contemporary repertoire for jinashi shakuhachi are:
Sinubi by Takahashi Yuji
Woman with Jinashi shakuhachi by Frank Denyer
Night Flying Winter Cranes by Mogens Christensen
Sinubi was performed by Shimura last month. This been recorded and is going to be released next year. So, that piece at least is going to be distributed a bit. I look forward to hear his rendition.
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Kiku Day wrote:
The 3 pieces I think can be added to what I call a contemporary repertoire for jinashi shakuhachi are:
Sinubi by Takahashi Yuji
Woman with Jinashi shakuhachi by Frank Denyer
Night Flying Winter Cranes by Mogens Christensen
As a fellow jinashi warrior, is there any easy way to get my hands on the scores?
Zak
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nyokai wrote:
Some players, such as Kurahashi-sensei, think that as shakuhachi performers we should support, welcome, and work on all the compositions that come our way. I admire his generous attitude and professional dedication but respectfully take a different approach.
I am reminded of a conversation with Kurahashi sensei at the Sydney festival. He told me he didn't have time for lunch that day because he had to rehearse a "most terrible piece."
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Zakarius wrote:
As a fellow jinashi warrior, is there any easy way to get my hands on the scores?
Zak
Ask me nicely!
The ones I have got a go for it and send to others are on their way...
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nyokai wrote:
I would love to see the scores too. Would I have to perform the Denyer piece in drag?
Ha! I didn't even get it at first and had to google 'in drag' before I connected to the title ! ! ! (blushing)
Yes please and remember to put the video on youtube!
Let me ask Mogens and Frank about handing scores out first.
Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-09-19 17:47:05)
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nyokai wrote:
I would love to see the scores too. Would I have to perform the Denyer piece in drag?
I got dibs on picking the dress....
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edosan wrote:
nyokai wrote:
I would love to see the scores too. Would I have to perform the Denyer piece in drag?
I got dibs on picking the dress....
I don't think Nyokai wears your size, Ed.
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I have frequently found in different contexts that analyzing how something DOESN'T work helps identify what does work in specific ways or with nuances other than merely analyzing what works.
Maybe delineating the specific ways in which the compositions fell short of your needs or criteria could be a very useful part of your research?
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ABRAXAS wrote:
Maybe delineating the specific ways in which the compositions fell short of your needs or criteria could be a very useful part of your research?
Thanks, Abraxas. You are right. For the research project - I don't think this is bad at all. I just need to get my head around putting it down on paper after I have done the conference paper tomorrow on performance research and before Wednesday 30th when I have to hand the thesis in.
Somehow as a performer with my own integrity I was clinging to the hope that I could perhaps say these two pieces were success too. Perhaps I just needed to practice more on them... perhaps if we changed a little here or there they would be better.. etc. Only at this late stage did I realise for real that if the aim was to add pieces to a repertoire of new compositions for jinashi shakuhachi these two pieces were failures. They are better played on flute although I am sure Fujiwara Dozan would play them finely too. But as Jim, Nyokai and other have already said 3 out of 5 is not bad at all. And I have learned SO much from the collaboration with the composers who wrote these 2 pieces.
Thank you all for your replies! It's been really great to get your feedback. They have helped me a lot to think about this in different and broader ways.
Also, if there are any of you in London on the 30th this month... then 4 pm there is champagne at SOAS, University of London, we thereafter move to the Scottish Whisky Society for a drink and thereafter I am planning to go for dinner at a Szechuan restaurant. Come and join us!
Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-09-20 04:26:39)
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hej Kiku, thats sounds great! I see it all as learning experience. I did a smoth jazz album sometimes ago.It took forever to finish it. Spend lots of of money with it..and in the end it sucked.Not my playing, but the prodeucer did a crapy job & I didn`t know much in that time.
So,I learned a lot from that experience, about me, about album production, arranging & putting together project.
I think the best is to compose your own jinashi pieces.
best
Geni
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geni wrote:
I think the best is to compose your own jinashi pieces.
i
Yep, how about that Kiku?
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There is two things that makes me not compose my own jinashi shakuhachi pieces:
1) I am not a composer and I have seen pretty crappy pieces out there by players of minority instruments - so being able to play doesn't necessarily mean good at composing. There are, of course, some wonderful player/composer out there too. I know I will not be that good. I can make simple structured improvisation around certain themes - which I think have worked well... but a real piece. not me.
2) I find that players when they compose they can get too confined to - not only what is idiomatic to the instrument but also what they can play themselves. And unless these player/composers are great players (and or composers) the piece risks becoming boring. Composers do - at best - take the performer to areas they have not been before. That is what I like about collaborating with composers. But - as this whole thread has begun with me ranting about this 'failure' I have to say it is an extremely fine balance between 'piece is safe and boring' - 'Piece takes performer to new areas of playing and thinking about the music' to 'piece failed because composer didn't understand which instrument he/she was composing for.
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Interesting points Kiku,
You're probably right about the distinction between being able to play, and being able to compose. Though I get the feeling that the better you are at playing, the more options and possibilities open up (sadly, I do not speak from experience here). I'm not sure what you meant by "safe and boring" though. Maybe you could expand on that a bit. Either way, it got me thinking about the idea of simplicity versus complexity, and how oftentimes what appears to be one, is in fact the other.
I don't mean to flog the kyorei-horse, but this is a simple, direct piece. Not particulary flashy. From a technical point, I'm sure it's not that difficult, yet the simplicity affords it great room for personal expression, tone colour, and that sort of thing. In short, the piece is kind of safe and boring, in the sense that it is not technically demanding, but it is complex in terms of what you choose to put into it. The same could be true of any piece. This tends to blur the line between composition and expression, but that, at least to me, is one of the beautiful things about shakuhachi. It allows for a complex range of self-expression. Maybe in the logic of breathing, with one breath following the next, a pattern begins to emerge and without intentional effort something approaching a composition is born. I get the sense (albeit, an overly romanticized one) that the original shakuhachi pieces emerged in just such a way, as a form of sonic meditation. Maybe some monk was loitering about and overheard another monk playing and said "hey, wait a minute, that was pretty good, do that one again." Thus, without intention, what started as meditation, as a following of the breath, could have been suddenly transformed into a composition. Then again, I'm probably way off on that one.
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