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#76 2009-06-14 16:00:15

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Licenses "R" Bogus!

Larry Tyrrell wrote:

Hello Poobahs Great and Small,

My favorite license story is one Kohachiro Miyata told me when I was studying with him.  He had told me in no uncertain terms he would not issue a license to any of his students. His attitude was "You study with me and you become a good player-that's it." However he did tell me of one of his former students, a Japanese man, who had emigrated to the U.S. and was proficient enough to be making his living as a session musician in L.A. The name alludes me just now but this student was back visiting with Miyata and bemoaning the fact he was having trouble finding students who would study with him because he was not "Shihan" and complaining that "Americans are license crazy!" Whereupon Miyata simply got out his paper, inks and inkans, created a license and said "There, now you're shihan!"

Larry

Hi Larry,
         Great story. The end of the story is that Masa never used or even acknowledged having a title. I studied with him from 1993 to his passing in 2007 and he never once said a peep about it. The subject of titles came up occasionally but it seemed to be a subject of no interest to him. I'm sure the whole thing was taken as a joke. Point being if you need a piece of paper to prove you can play you're on shakey ground.  I say stay focused on constant improvement and let how people perceive you take of itself.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#77 2009-06-14 23:43:11

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Licenses "R" Bogus!

axolotl wrote:

I look forward to the day that Jim Thompson scribbles something on a piece of paper and throws it at me! 

What would happen if, say, in 4 years I show up in Japan knowing all of the required Kinko repertoire and try to find a teacher and proceed to a licensing exam?  It sounds like I'd be operating under a number of disadvantages; invariably I wouldn't be prepared in the right way and would probably face some opposition for appearing out of nowhere.  I have no idea if this is the right path for me; for now, I just want to learn how to play well and see where that leads.

Hi axolotl
I'm not sure how this works in the various schools, but I can tell you at least the little I have heard about this from Yokoyama's school. If you have studied to the level of shihan in your home country, it is possible to come to Japan for Yokoyama to check your playing, I believe. I don't know if there is a minimum number of lessons he would make the student take with him, but I guess enough that he would be sure you have learned the different parts of the repertoire sufficiently. It is also great to get his personal advice on your playing. I think Yokoyama is very understanding of foreigners' situations. Some people from abroad who don't have a local teacher come to study in Japan regularly, or some are visited by Japanese or in-country teachers, sometimes from more than one different school. Yokoyama is very accepting and has students who have studied or are still studying other schools. But for the shihan you have to have studied his school, and I presume it is the same for any school. So, if you have been studying Kinko-ryu and want a shihan in Japan, I would assume your best chances would be to come to a teacher here who is from the same branch of Kinko as you, whatever that might be (i.e. Chikumeisha, Chikuyuusha etc.). The different branches all have their own way of playing, their own styles.

Still, they might make you study for some time with them. That could be to make sure you are playing to their satisfaction. But it also may be to build the relationship, which may be equally important. It seems to me that the shihan is not merely to certify that you play well. You actually become a representative of the school. (I think Brian was mentioning this, about whether the person is a suitable character). It seems to me that that is a very personal thing, so there is then a very personal connection between you and your teacher and school. There already is, of course. It seems to me that in Japan becoming a student of shakuhachi (also other instruments) under a teacher is like entering their family, the school being the family. I suppose becoming a shihan solidifies this even more, increasing your responsibilities. That's the way it seems to me at least. Perhaps others can comment on this aspect. Also they may be more relaxed towards foreigners on this aspect, especially if they don't live here.

It seems to me a very different world to studying music in England in my experience. Like I said before, more like becoming a disciple of a guru in religion. It definitely has its values, although one disadvantage can be being frowned upon for studying from another school. I think that's a shame, as musically I think it can be a benefit for a dedicated musician to study from other styles.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#78 2009-09-26 15:17:22

Peter Kororo
Member
Registered: 2008-06-21
Posts: 82
Website

Re: Licenses "R" Bogus!

Lots more information than wisdom here, in my opinion. Lots more inuendo than clear statements (though admittedly I didn't wade through it all). Are you talking about Tozan ryu? As Mr. Kurahashi pointed out to me recently, there are more Tozan shihans than Kinko players, and so perhaps that's the "shihan mill" situation referred to.

As for my own experience, someday maybe I'll put up the looooong recorded conversations (15-20 hours worth) that happened during my private lessons with  Mr. Yokoyama in the years 2005-2008 (i.e. between my receiving my Shihan and Dai Shihan from him). Putting those things up on the web, though, might offend some of the people here in the cyber-shakuhachi world, as Mr. Yokoyama elaborated at some length on a few of the cryptic statements he made to Josh and Perry in the very truncated version of these conversations that they captured in their interview.  I found it interesting that while some of his statements were commented on and dissected at length in that thread, others which might throw a less positive light on some of us weren't talked about.

I say this because, among other reasons, those of you who haven't spent years in Japan might consider being less judgmental of those of us who have, or the Japanese situation in general, until you've spent a few years there, with the attendant challenges, difficulties, and the growth as a player, and, if you "take the hint," as a person, that those engender. Pardon a bit of annoyance creeping in here but I don't think you have much of an idea what you're talking about.

Just my opinion, of course.

Last edited by Peter Kororo (2009-10-04 06:58:59)


“Many people come, looking, looking. Some people come, see.”
                        —Nepalese saying

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#79 2009-09-26 23:38:09

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Licenses "R" Bogus!

looking forwar to hear those recordings!!!

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#80 2009-09-30 01:04:27

Peter Kororo
Member
Registered: 2008-06-21
Posts: 82
Website

Re: Licenses "R" Bogus!

geni wrote:

looking forwar to hear those recordings!!!

I should clarify here....I'm prone to mis-statements when I write things quickly. The last post was done at around 2AM Bangkok time during a break in scheduling my trip to Taiwan...I was tired and frustrated with that.

But, that said, I find the allusions to the topic I addressed equally frustrating....as one of my teachers in Japan has said more than once, the shakuhachi worlds in Japan and outside Japan are "very different."

Anyway, as to the recordings...all of these meetings with Mr. Yokoyama during those years were lessons followed by long talks with him and his lovely wife. I will always treasure those experiences. Like most of the other incredible people I've met in Asia over the last couple of decades--the teachers, gurus, lamas, yogis, saddhus, and others--Mr. Yokoyama is a complex person who some times contradicts himself (I think of Whitman: "do I contradict myself?/very well then I contradict myself/I am large, I contain multitudes"), but whose words come from experience, from his life, his activity in his life, and what that has uncovered in him, and then offered to us.

So, my recorder was on during and some times for a while after my lesson, but I would then turn it off because I knew he would speak more frankly without being recorded. I'm the same way, I prefer my own students don't record lessons, and in fact I've never recorded my own lessons except with him, because I find, at least for myself, that doing so (not recording) makes me focus much more on the lesson, knowing I can't refer to the recording later.

I got evidence of this one time when he turned to his wife and said, offhandedly, something about me which I'll freely admit I REALLY wish I'd recorded, so I cheekily asked him if he could repeat it into the mic. He wasn't thrilled by that, complied but the recorded version was much less flattering.

So, I guess about  a third or less of those hours are recorded, and indeed the most interesting parts weren't. Out of respect for him I'm not interested in broadcasting his private thoughts to me (which has nothing to do with them being said to me). I'm slooowly working on my own memoirs about my years studying and playing shakuhachi in Kyoto, Tokyo, and the US, and if and when I get that finished and--bigger if--published some of those thought will be in it.

One other large caveat about that is, that his way of teaching--the only way I was able to experience, having regrettably passed on the opportunity to being studying with him in 1990--is to find the one loose thread in the piece you've spent years working on, and pull it all apart with one sentence, so you can go back to the woodshed and polish it some more.

In my opinion it's this polishing, perfecting the fine details, that is a major part of the Zen experience of playing shakuhachi.


“Many people come, looking, looking. Some people come, see.”
                        —Nepalese saying

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