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#1 2006-06-29 07:53:33

jaybeemusic
Member
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 145

Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

Hey everybody, I'm new here and i just want to say that this place is great!!  Almost any question i had has been answered.  But.......

Where do you take the measurements for hole placement on a bent piece of bamboo?  Inside curve, outside curve or guesstimate somewhere in between?

I don't have a straightening jig so it'll have to stay bent and it blows Ro REALLY well, so i'd hate to mess up this one.  I know i can manipulate the hole sizes and stuff but i'd like to get this one as close as possible.  Any info that you guys could give me would be fantastic.  Thanks again on a wonderful forum.

Jacques


It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people "think" that you're stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

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#2 2006-07-01 06:48:34

EDF
Member
Registered: 2006-06-10
Posts: 9

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

Hi,
Since nobody else has replied, I'm going to say what I would do
in this situation.

Bearing in mind I've only made four bamboo shakuhachi so far,
and they all sound nice ( beginners luck!),
but several pvc and a wooden one, and loads of quena, NAF and keyless
6 hole flutes for playing Irish Trad Music, and lots of whistles.

I would take the measurement along the side i.e. midway length of curve.
Work out the hole position using your favourite formula,
and drill the holes small.
This would allow the opening of the hole by filing.
e.g. if the hole were too near the 'bell' end and therefore flat in tone,
sharpen it by filing the edge nearest the mouthpiece, until it came into
the correct note.
If too sharp, file the edge nearest  the bell end to flatten it.
If the note is ok, then carefully use a larger drill to get the
correct hole size. It is the centre position of the hole that is important.

I know the sound would be quiet using smaller holes to test,
but at least you would be in with a chance of getting the correct
position, with holes that wouldn't be too big to finger if a lot of filing
were to be done.

Best advice I can give I'm afraid.

Hope it helps, or confirms what you had in mind anyway.
Apologies if you already knew the above.

Last edited by EDF (2006-07-01 06:51:36)

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#3 2006-07-01 16:54:37

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

Acoustically, the true 'length' is at the center, not the inside or outside radius of the curve. Sometimes if it's quite curved I use a narrow measuring tape and insert it into the bore.

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#4 2006-07-02 15:25:23

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

My understanding, and a bit of practice, regarding filing the hole to alter pitch, ....is that you can sharpen the pitch by filing the utaguchi side, but you cannot flatten the pitch by filing the bell side.

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#5 2006-07-02 22:39:32

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

Karmajampa wrote:

My understanding, and a bit of practice, regarding filing the hole to alter pitch, ....is that you can sharpen the pitch by filing the utaguchi side, but you cannot flatten the pitch by filing the bell side.

This is true. The only way to flatten the pitch is to add material to the utaguchi side, thus 'moving' the hole nearer the bell, or make the hole smaller again....smile


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#6 2006-07-03 04:24:22

EDF
Member
Registered: 2006-06-10
Posts: 9

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

In the best possible way, I have to respectfully disagree.

The centre of the tone hole is what decides the note,
not the edge of the hole. If you file a hole, you effectively
move the centre in the direction of filing.
If you add to the blowing edge of the hole, you effectively
move the hole centre further down the flute.
Filing has exactly the same effect.
If therefore you drill a small hole, and it is
e.g. too high, file it until pitch, on the
bell end edge. You can always round it later,
unless oblong is acceptable.
Obviously, there is a danger of ending up
with a very large hole,  and this may be the case
is the hole is driiled too low down as well.
This is why I suggest using a small drill,
so that the resulting hole isn't too large if
it has to be filed.

I agree that making Shakuhachi is new to me,
but other flute making is not, and this method
has always worked for me on every material
I have used - metal, wood, plastic, even cardboard tubes!
Try it on a piece of pvc (because it's cheap!)
and see. Just drill even one hole, then file it.
See what happens.

It's physics, but not as we know it smile

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#7 2006-07-11 16:28:33

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Hole Placement for Curved Bamboo

Welcome Jacques,

I suppose it depends which way the bends move. I've had decent luck just moving with the curves using a flexible tape measure. As long as you are consistent, you should be close.

Ken


edosan wrote:

Karmajampa wrote:

My understanding, and a bit of practice, regarding filing the hole to alter pitch, ....is that you can sharpen the pitch by filing the utaguchi side, but you cannot flatten the pitch by filing the bell side.

This is true. The only way to flatten the pitch is to add material to the utaguchi side, thus 'moving' the hole nearer the bell, or make the hole smaller again....smile

I would agree with this as well. At least in regard to shakuhachi.

I've found that filing the south side of a hole sharpens the pitch slightly. Filing the north end sharpens it more. In other words, in this particular situation, the power of hole size to sharpen pitch is stronger than the power of hole placement to flatten pitch.

Ken

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