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#1 2009-11-09 05:21:27

robe.sall
Member
From: ROME, ITALY
Registered: 2009-05-04
Posts: 10

dojo training

Hi!
I'm Roberto from Rome (Italy). I would know which are differences and similarities between american dojo and japanese keiko system of training. And why the former is less diffused in Europe. What are the traditional values of the keiko training that pass on in a dojo method of learning?
Thanks in advance.
R.S.

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#2 2009-11-10 01:21:49

Lanier flutes
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2008-09-16
Posts: 32

Re: dojo training

Japanese keiko system players sit in seiza, while american dojo players use chairs and other supportive equipment. Japanese keiko players hunt wild boar on the ground with bows while American dojo players shoot wild boar from helicopters or practice vegetarianism. Japanese keiko training involves getting up before dawn to swim in winter seas or bath in ice cold waterfalls while American dojo system warm up involves swimming laps in the pool or playing Mafia Wars.  Japanese keiko players climb a mountain to get to the dojo; American dojo players take the subway, surf, or rollerblade.  American dojos are more eclectic, borrowing from many different lineages while Japanese keiko system generally frowns upon learning from another school.  American dojo players are often multi-instrumentalists, playing other instruments such as tin whistles, saxophones, silver flutes, neys, and electric bass; Japanese keiko players mainly stick to shakuhachi.  There are, however, exceptions to every rule.  As the Japanese or Japanese keiko players arrived in Europe before the American dojo players, their system is more prevalent; that and the long history of European respect for lineage and tradition. The French, German, Dutch, and English (and perhaps other European countries) have their own systems against which the American dojo system has been unable to make headway. Traditional values include gaman and ganbaru -- patience and perseverance in playing shakuhachi under all circumstances, even while playing in extreme weather conditions such as blizzards, monsoons, or sandstorms.


"And the music of humans means bamboo pipes singing"            Yen-cheng  Tzu-yu

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#3 2009-11-10 01:46:17

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: dojo training

robe.sall wrote:

Hi!
I'm Roberto from Rome (Italy). I would know which are differences and similarities between american dojo and japanese keiko system of training. And why the former is less diffused in Europe. What are the traditional values of the keiko training that pass on in a dojo method of learning?
Thanks in advance.
R.S.

Hi Roberto
I suggest the best way to understand the differences is to study in both systems, if indeed there are such things. I'm not sure how well you will understand your subject if you remain an outsider to the traditions you are studying. Or, do you already study within these systems?

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#4 2009-11-10 03:21:58

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: dojo training

Hi Roberto.

I second Justin in suggesting change of research method.
You are doing research for a paper I remember. I don't know if it is your Masters thesis or which level it is. You may not have time and the means to go and study in the US and Japan, and that's fair enough. But then instead of asking people what the difference is between US and Japanese shakuhachi dojo (which are only secondary sources) I'd suggest that the least you do is to interview Japanese and American teachers about their teaching methods, you compare the results yourself and thereafter make your own conclusion if there are any differences, and if there are - which ones. That would make your paper more interesting wink Good luck with it!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#5 2009-11-10 06:09:30

robe.sall
Member
From: ROME, ITALY
Registered: 2009-05-04
Posts: 10

Re: dojo training

Justin wrote:

robe.sall wrote:

Hi!
I'm Roberto from Rome (Italy). I would know which are differences and similarities between american dojo and japanese keiko system of training. And why the former is less diffused in Europe. What are the traditional values of the keiko training that pass on in a dojo method of learning?
Thanks in advance.
R.S.

Hi Roberto
I suggest the best way to understand the differences is to study in both systems, if indeed there are such things. I'm not sure how well you will understand your subject if you remain an outsider to the traditions you are studying. Or, do you already study within these systems?

I am writing my masters degree thesis on Ethnomusicology, and my first target is to understand how a local instrument is became a global instrument, and how and by which this change is appened. I try to know who are protagonist in Japan and abroad of this passage/crossing. Then I'll compare both situation and obtain information related to my interest.
Perhaps it is heavy project.
Roberto.

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#6 2009-11-10 06:56:02

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: dojo training

Hi Roberto
You explained to us in your first post to the forum that you are doing your thesis about shakuhachi. If you want to do that without actually studying shakuhachi, then I think Kiku's advice was good, the suggestion of actually interviewing teachers.

Other than that, as you are a researcher, perhaps offering some information to the forum which people would find new and interesting, may encourage people to join in with your threads. If there is some information or theories you have and want to discuss them.

So far I have found that your questions have been a little vague, and perhaps better answered by reading the available material published in European languages (if you can't read Japanese) in books or online.

As for your question in this thread, to me it sounds as if you are trying to identify the differences and similarities between the "keiko" style and the "dojo" style, and how these have been transmitted around the world. I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. I can't help wondering if you may have just come across these words and presumed they refer to different ways of transmitting shakuhachi. Rather like the difference between a lesson and a class? This may explain the answer you received from Lanier flutes.

I hope your research goes well, and I'm sure the forum will be interested to hear of the results of your studies.

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#7 2009-11-11 21:24:35

Lanier flutes
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2008-09-16
Posts: 32

Re: dojo training

Bonjour Roberto. Je suis desole.  Ta question etait un peu bizarre.  Je ne savait pas que vous etes un rechercheur.  Quel est le systeme d'entrainment dan les dojos aux Etats-Unis?  Je ne sais pas.  Bonne chance avec vos recherches.


"And the music of humans means bamboo pipes singing"            Yen-cheng  Tzu-yu

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