Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Jon Kypros · 2009-12-25 18:39:02

My favorite Jin Nyodo piece is Darani from Kyoto Myoanji. I really like the simplicity of the first half of the piece and how it becomes more complex up to the "nun's veil" or "law" section with Tsu chu meri and Re meri. I play it from the Jin Nyodo lineage. Is it different in other lineages? I would LOVE to hear anyone's stories or anything to share about this piece not found on Komuso!

Edit: I learned that this was Jin's version of a Reibo from Myoan Shinpo Ryu, that's pre Taizan's Myoan.

Last edited by Jon Kypros (2024-03-30 18:35:59)

Bogert · 2009-12-25 22:26:04

Hi Jon and everyone,
It's been a really long time since I last posted on here...
Anyway, I enjoy that piece too. I study and practice Buddhism, so I like the honkyoku that are directly Buddhist related : )
I don't really have any new stories about it, but can give some info about it and the title.

A Dharani is kind of like a long mantra. The text is generally left in the original Sanskrit. This is the same with mantras. It encapsulates the essence of the Dharma in a short form.
Kurahashi sensei told me this honkyoku mimics the sound of the chanting of a dharani.. although there are many dharani, so I'm not sure which one. The most popular one though is the Great Compassion Dharani.
The 法の曲 indeed translates as the law, but also translates as the Dharma. Maybe, Piece of the Dharma.
Anyway, that's just my two cents. Nothing really new though..

Hope that is at least a little interesting.
Chris

Jon Kypros · 2009-12-26 13:24:01

Hi Chris thank you for replying and good to hear from you. It's great to just hear from others that also enjoy the piece. Out of all the times I went to Kurahashi's intensives in NYC I always managed to miss the Darani class! I'll try to find some audio of dharani chants. The "law" section is of a lot of interest for me. I'm interested what kind of feelings or thoughts you have on that section? Has a weird melancholy feel for me with mixed emotion. That lonely strong otsu Ro at the end of the whole piece is also pretty interesting.

Last edited by Jon (2009-12-26 16:10:51)

Josh · 2009-12-26 18:56:06

Hi Jon,
I like this song too. At times I start to feel it's quite simple and repititious. But then after playing awhile I start to see the depth in simplicity that many honkyoku have. I need to practice this song more. Here is a clip of Mike playing at a temple:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8V2xe3-EEs

I recently became ordained as a Shingon Buddhist priest, although they don't make the distinction in words it is more like a monk in a monastery than a full fledged priest, but anyway. We were talking about Darani and some of the different chants. Try a search using the more commonly used spelling of "Dharani" 陀羅尼, there's a lot of info out there, of course not all good, but helpful.
Although Darani is read by different groups, it is quite important in the esoteric traditions of Buddhism. It is sometimes associated with mysticism and it is often used as a chant for good health. There is a kind of herbal medicine called "Dharani-suke" that many of the temple's around here in Nara sell. Like most pieces the origins of this piece also seem a bit fuzzy. Did it actually come from the sound of a Dharani chant? Which could possibly make it closer to an esoteric buddhism rather than Zen, another attempt by the Fuke sect obscure history. Or was the name just attached because it sounds Buddhist?
Who knows. But i think it comes down to just playng the song with that intention and dedication. I too would like to hear some other versions of this by other schools, not sure if there are any out there though.

geni · 2009-12-26 20:36:38

congrats bro!! What`s the pay;-)?

Justin · 2009-12-26 21:56:48

Hi Josh
Did you also learn this piece from the Jin Nyodo lineage, or another lineage? Also does anyone know who Jin learned it from?

And Josh, wow, you're a monk now! In most Buddhist countries this means strict vows, celibacy, living in a monastery etc. I know in Japan things changed a lot since the Meiji period and monks were made to marry. I've heard that now it depends what sect? What does this mean in Shingon? Do you still live at home? Is it a full time job? I'm sure people would be interested to hear about it, as Shingon is a lot less well known than Zen.

Tairaku 太楽 · 2009-12-26 22:03:18

geni wrote:
congrats bro!! What`s the pay;-)?

"Yes, I'm gonna get me religion, I'm gonna join the Baptist Church.
Yes, I'm gonna get me religion, I'm gonna join the Baptist Church.
You know I wanna be a Baptist preacher, just so I won't have to work."

Son House

Congrats Josh, good luck with that. What does your family think about this lifestyle decision?

Jim Thompson · 2009-12-26 23:22:35

Justin wrote:
What does this mean in Shingon? Do you still live at home? Is it a full time job?

Josh,
I would be interested to hear the answers to these questions too. What are your obligations and the amount of time required daily? Would it still be possible to be a full time shakuhachi guy?

Last edited by Jim Thompson (2009-12-26 23:23:36)

Josh · 2009-12-27 02:46:08

Apparently there is a "Kyoto Myoanji Darani", but I only learned the Jin Nyodo version. Sorry, I don't know where he learned it though. Fujiwara Etsuzan also plays a piece called "Dharani Reiho" (陀羅尼礼法)

Being a monk for me at this point is not a job, in the sense that I get a big paycheck and get to drive a benz like some monks. But at some point after training if I'd like to run my own temple that seems to be an option. Not a financially prosperous one, but an option. There is a lot of training such as learning the chants, rituals, history etc. Our temple is also into Buddhist music such as Shomyo, so that is something else we study. The head priest is quite into music so he sees a connection with shakuhachi, among other instruments, and spirituality. Last week we went to Ikoma san to do Takuhatsu (begging for alms) at the temple there. There were about 15 monks there and my teacher told me to bring my shakuhachi and play a little while others chanted. It unfortunately snowed a little and my toes and fingers were freezing, but it was a great feeling and combination of sounds. I was even tempted to bring aong the tengai, later my teacher said I should have. Maybe next time..

Shingon is a bit complex but at least the priest I'm training under is not an extremist or fanatic. For example in Shingon, of course it says though shalt not kill in the precepts (like the ten commandments) but it is left up to the individual as to whether they choose to become vegetarian or not. I know many priests that eat meat, only fish, nothing with legs...to each his own I guess.
Similarly, having a family is also accepted. There is a brief training period of 100 days (shido kegyo) that monks usually do where you can not have any contact outside of the temple. But for now on a regular basis I continue to live about a ten-minute walk from Taima temple and visit every early morning for prayers, chants, cleaning etc. Some days I might work the reception too. On days I'm busy with shakuhachi or am away on a trip I'm also free to miss that day. They are fine with me performing and so are some other open-minded temples of different sects where I have performed at. I figure that if some sects do not like the fact that I am associated with Shingon, they probably are also close minded enough not to want a foreign guy playing there anyway. No sweat. As there is almost never a conflict, Shinto Shrines work quite well. I'm getting ready for a cold, outside New Year's Hatsumode concert.

I think the obligated time depends on the temple and priest you affiliate yourself with, as well as how much time you want to put into it. Before being ordained, a relationship has to be established well in advance with a priest because most of the teachings are taught on a one-on-one basis. But my teacher is comfortable with me one day becoming a professor or whatever as well.
BTW, I handed in my Phd last week!! I'll have to wait to see the teachers reactions but the next step is the oral defense in late February.
Although Gishin is a different branch, he is also an ordained Shingon priest. With his experience and training he can better answer detailed religious questions, but it's probably best to do it privately.

One of the monks at takuhatsu was going to dress up as santa for Xmas for kids in the neighborhood, so I guess it's fine to say Merry Xmas, happy holidays, and a Happy New Year to everybody.

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk · 2009-12-27 03:01:23

Jim Thompson wrote:
Justin wrote:
What does this mean in Shingon? Do you still live at home? Is it a full time job?
Josh,
I would be interested to hear the answers to these questions too. What are your obligations and the amount of time required daily? Would it still be possible to be a full time shakuhachi guy?

Being a Buddhist Priest/Monk since they are the same it is just the translation of Bozu or Soryo into English depending on the translator etc for Books in English they will use either monk or priest now some people mostly foreigners are having issues with the term but to this I truly don't give a shit.

Now in Japan since Meiji restoration officially Buddhist priests are allowed to marry have kids etc and even a mistress and most of the time the temple will be transmitted from father to son.

Most priests have their own temple and can operate under a certain sect name as long as they have the proper license and pay their yearly dues to the Honzan/headquarters.

This is the same for ALL schools in Japanese Buddhism.

Their will be cases that the temple is owned by the head office and this will be usually the case of famous temples that in a way have to be handled by more than a family. For example the Sanjusangendo. also some priest will choose not to marry either because they are too ugly and cannot find a wife OR they chose to live a life of celibacy either by personal choice OR they decided to pursue an ascetic way of life this is I would say only 10% of all Japanese priests.

Outside all that being a Buddhist priest is like any other job since the temple as to operate as a business and will occupy the priest and his family to administrate all this also depending on the size and amounts of customers the priest might hire help for cleaning etc and employ junior priests to perform ceremonies. Some priest that have smaller temples that have more free time have been known to be teachers in Universities etc as well.

Kiku Day · 2009-12-27 04:13:05

Hi Josh.

Congratulations being ordained as a Shingon monk now!
And just as big CONGRATULATION on handing in your thesis!!!
So you will already have the voce viva (defence) end of February. Good for you to hand in your thesis in a country like Japan. In England it's been a big mess - as much things can be in this chaotic country. Registry at SOAS forgot to send the papers on - bureaucracy just made the process as slow as a process can get here. So... 3 month after I handed in my thesis I don't even know if my exminors have received my thesis to read.
Sigh!

Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-12-27 04:55:54)

Josh · 2009-12-27 05:04:42

Thanks guys. I've been kind of busy lately.
The examiners will give back their first impressions in the beginning of January of whether I can just continue on to the oral defence, I have to make some revisions first, or if I am just complete crap and will get to hang out with them another 6 months and try again later. In that respect the Japanese system is pretty solid, or rigid and unflexible one could say. As for the post doc at the Univ. of Arts I'm waiting on the results from JSPS. They extended the result date because they are waiting to see if the government will have any tax money left over to support us. I'm sure they will have to have another 50 meetings about meetings to decide anything!

Sorry we corrupted the Dharani thread! I will return to my quarters now and play Darani for everyone

Tairaku 太楽 · 2009-12-27 05:18:54

Ph.D's, ordinations, nice to see someone grabbing the bull by the horns and doing it!

Kiku Day · 2009-12-27 05:58:56

Threads often get strayed away from the original.
Not to worry!
Dharani will manifest itself as it is a wonderful piece.

Bogert · 2010-02-14 07:03:21

Back on the Darani topic,

Today I received notation for Myoan Shinpo-ryu Sanya no Kyoku, from several transmissions. One from Takahashi Rochiku and the other Takahashi Kuzan.
As soon as I started to play them, I realized it is the same honkyoku as Darani.
Kuzan's version is very close to Jin Nyodo's Darani. While Rochiku's version, which is supposed to be closer to the original, is similar but it's a lot slower.
About 15min long, compared with 6 min or so of the other versions.
It is recognizable as the same piece though.
I had been wondering where Darani fit in the Shinpo-ryu, as it didn't seem to be from Shozan, at least in title.
So, it seems (this is my thinking, could be wrong) that Jin Nyodo, or who ever taught him that honkyoku changed the name, or it is an alternate name for it.
In the original Shinpo-ryu version is also has the Ho no Kyoku part titled as such, just like in Darani.

Anyway, thought that might be interesting for someone

Chris

Jon Kypros · 2010-04-03 21:38:58

Thank you!

Back to shakuhachi lessons and crafting shakuhachi!

Last edited by Jon Kypros (2024-03-30 18:37:49)

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2009-12-25 18:39:02

Darani

#2 2009-12-25 22:26:04

Re: Darani

#3 2009-12-26 13:24:01

Re: Darani

#4 2009-12-26 18:56:06

Re: Darani

#5 2009-12-26 20:36:38

Re: Darani

#6 2009-12-26 21:56:48

Re: Darani

#7 2009-12-26 22:03:18

Re: Darani

geni wrote:

#8 2009-12-26 23:22:35

Re: Darani

Justin wrote:

#9 2009-12-27 02:46:08

Re: Darani

#10 2009-12-27 03:01:23

Re: Darani

Jim Thompson wrote:

Justin wrote:

#11 2009-12-27 04:13:05

Re: Darani

#12 2009-12-27 05:04:42

Re: Darani

#13 2009-12-27 05:18:54

Re: Darani

#14 2009-12-27 05:58:56

Re: Darani

#15 2010-02-14 07:03:21

Re: Darani

#16 2010-04-03 21:38:58

Re: Darani

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