World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat
You are not logged in.
Hi there,
First, I would like to thank all the contributors, and specially Ken and Perry who generously share their knowledge in this topic.
After a hocchiku workshop, I decided to continue making jinashi, and thus, I got the very minimum tools needed, from Mejiro and nearby suppliers. I'm fine except for the drill bits. During the wokshop, we used the Mejiro's ones, hand held, and they worked flawlesly.
If Mejiro is the only way, I'll go for it, but wanted to avoid this extra expens at begining, and eventually afford to get 2 different size for convenience.
What kind of other drill bit would any of you advice for using hand held with electric drill? I tried basic 3 points wood bit, did'nt worked well, ended up going on one side and messing a bit the bamboo. Are the forstner OK for hand held? Forstner are difficult to find in Europe. I would appreciate starting with 8mm to have a margin to correct the placement, and Forstner don't seem to have that size, only 6 or 9,5mm or greater.
Thanks
Dominique
Offline
I use various Dremel bits and some hand files to drill and shape the holes to my likings, im not sure about the names of them in english but i can look em up and post pictures if you are interested, generally it takes more time to make each hole this way but you also have more control drilling sanding and milling the holes to correct size with the desired undercuts and so on.
Offline
John Neptune uses a knife to make the holes. He considers drill bits to be less than ideal. You can use a small drill bit to make a pilot hole and use the knife from there. Otherwise, for nicely formed holes without ragged edges, the Meijiro bits are best. I often use various dremel bits and small needle files to finish the holes like Itamar. It is ALWAYS worthwhile to round both inside and outside edges of your fingerholes to prevent acoustic losses through turbulence.
Toby
Offline
Thanks Itamar,
I guess when you don't have the confort to have a master maker next to you to help correct your hole placement, starting by making small holes and enlarge them is safe. I will find small round files to make it easier. I'm amazed to see how we can communicate, all the shakuhachi apprentices and makers together, from around the world. Was in Tel Aviv 2 years ago around that time (april)
Thanks Toby,
As you emphasize again smoothing the sharp edges of the holes, what line could you draw between smoothing the edges of the holes, specially inside the bore, and undercuting? The last sharpens the notes, or correct the pitch I've heard. I wonder if slight undercut of 1st hole would help tsu meri? I allready experimented that smoothing holes edges inside mellows the notes transtion.
So, no easy way, shortcuts, except Mejiro bits, or, even better, slow and hard job with knife. Will give me some extra courage to enlarge holes with my kuri knife, knowing John Neptune do it that way.
In fact, I'm not interested with the approach of shakuhachi making with all those electric tools, not in an attitude of "the past was greater" or "more spiritual", it was may be in some aspects, no chemicals, no mass health destruction weapons like Macdonalds food, but because shakuhachi is such a sensitive instrument; slight alterations here and there change the sonic properties, and manual simple instruments seem to fit the best. I previously was a synthesizer progammer freaks creating atmospheres and multi layers padds, now I feel a bit the same, tweaking the shakuhachi blowing hole, and appreciate all the changes of tone color. It ables to customize instruments to your specs. This is luxury
Last edited by Safiya (2010-05-15 09:42:46)
Offline
Toby wrote:
It is ALWAYS worthwhile to round both inside and outside edges of your fingerholes to prevent acoustic losses through turbulence.
Toby
Safiya wrote:
I wonder if slight undercut of 1st hole would help tsu meri? I allready experimented that smoothing holes edges inside mellows the notes transtion.
Exactly! Undercutting AND rounding the outside of the hole can help tsu meri tremendously.
Safiya wrote:
I previously was a synthesizer progammer freaks creating atmospheres and multi layers padds, now I feel a bit the same, tweaking the shakuhachi blowing hole, and appreciate all the changes of tone color. It ables to customize instruments to your specs. This is luxury
Well put! A file and a tone hole. A program and computer. No difference. Luxury!
Offline
Thanks Ken, I'll try cautiously some undercut.
Yeah, it donged on me that, well, quite a few years later, I was in the same posture of tweaking sound color. But now without electronics, in a more organic and satisfying way, even if "command Z" or "apple Z" doesn't come built-in bamboos. Or probably because of that, real life.
I do appreciate your flutes, I came accros some of your shakuhachi, and own some, and I play them a lot.
Offline
Rounding means getting rid of sharp edges. You can round quite a bit before you really start to take away a lot of wall, which will not substantially affect intonation.
Toby
Last edited by Toby (2010-05-18 04:18:24)
Offline
Safiya wrote:
Hi there,
First, I would like to thank all the contributors, and specially Ken and Perry who generously share their knowledge in this topic.
After a hocchiku workshop, I decided to continue making jinashi, and thus, I got the very minimum tools needed, from Mejiro and nearby suppliers. I'm fine except for the drill bits. During the wokshop, we used the Mejiro's ones, hand held, and they worked flawlesly.
If Mejiro is the only way, I'll go for it, but wanted to avoid this extra expens at begining, and eventually afford to get 2 different size for convenience.
What kind of other drill bit would any of you advice for using hand held with electric drill? I tried basic 3 points wood bit, did'nt worked well, ended up going on one side and messing a bit the bamboo. Are the forstner OK for hand held? Forstner are difficult to find in Europe. I would appreciate starting with 8mm to have a margin to correct the placement, and Forstner don't seem to have that size, only 6 or 9,5mm or greater.
Thanks
Dominique
actually forstner bits are a good choice for drilling the holes (I use the 9.5mm). If you're worried about how the hole placement is going to turn out use this formula from the bottom of the flute hole 1 is 12.1mm from the rootend of the flute, hole 2 is 5.45mm from hole 1, hole 3 is 5.2mm from hole 2, hole 4 is 5.6mm from hole 3, and hole 5 (thumb hole) is 3.6mm from hole 4.
If you're making a larger or smaller flute than the standard 1.8 (54.5mm) use this formula
hole 1 = 12.1 x flute length divided by 54.5
hole to hole placement = flute length divided by 10
hoe 4 to hole 5 placment = 3.6 x flute length divided by 54.5
after you drill the holes, enlarge them untill they come into pitch
(usually 11mm for holes 1, 2, 4, and 5 and 10 mm for hole three)
hope that helps
itterasshai
jynx
Offline