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#1 2010-08-03 00:52:33

Danny
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 32
Website

Flute care: mold in bore

Hi all,

I have read most of the threads on the forum which talk about mold and how to treat it, but I just have a few more specific questions you might be able to help me with. I recently acquired a Mujitsu chinese root-end, 2.0 length and have been keeping it in the plastic sleeve it came in, with a big breath of warm air before I seal it with an elastic band. Yesterday I discovered quite a bit of black spotty mold inside the bore, particularly nearest the blowing end.

I have had some success at removing the mold with eucalyptus oil and a tooth brush, but there still remains more mold spots in further to reach places, and those areas I can reach still have faint spots. I then tried spraying a solution of eucalyptus oil and methylated spirits inside both ends of the flute with the holes covered (I'm a bit worried about the metho drying the flute out so I only used a tiny bit). I left it for about 5 minutes then ran a cloth through several times. This had no effect. I then did the same thing with tea tree oil, again the effect was minimal.

So I'm thinking about using bleach or supermarket mold killer. Here are my questions:

1. Is it ok to spray in some mold killer/bleach and leave it for say, 10 minutes, and then spray water into the bore to rinse?
2. Is there a way to do it with tea tree/eucalyptus oil such as submerging the flute for a decent length of time in a tub, or is this too much moisture?
3. How long should I wait before playing the flute if I use the bleach/chemical method - ie. so I don't poison myself with fumes?
4. How could I best prevent mold building up? Stop keeping it in the plastic (the average relative humidity where I live is about 70%)?
5. I was thinking of oiling the flute with linseed/walnut oil. Is that done by submerging the flute in oil? If so, for how long?

Someone must have done this before..

Thanks for your help!


http://dustymoon.org/

Follow the ancient path / deep into mountains / and go further still..

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#2 2010-08-03 07:17:04

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

Hi Danny,
First of all, if you have an average realative humidity of 70%, I think there is no need to put the flute in a plastic bag at all.  I live in southwestern Japan where the relative humidity in summer is  about the same as you and it drops to the 60s in the winter.  I have never put any of my shakuhachi in bags and have never in 25 years had an adverse problem arise.
If the bore of your flute is untreated, it will react like natural bamboo and become a host to mold.  In fact, it's mold that creates the beautiful mottling effect that is so desirable on the outside of shakuhachi.
To prevent mold in the bore, you will need some sort of coating or you will need to keep the instrument in a much less humid environment.  One substance that has been used with success is kakishibu which is an extract of persimmon that is readily available here in Japan, though it likely isn't available to you in Australia.
With regard to a flute that has already become host to black mold, you may be able to make it relatively inert with commercial mold killer, but without changing the environment that it exists in, it will likely come back and fairly quickly.  You might like to check with Ken on this, but some sort of lacquer is likely the best answer.  Natural lacquers will contain urushiol in varying amounts while synthetics contain no urushiol.  Periodic light washes of transparent lacquer might work very well.
With regard to the amount of time you would need to wait before playing a flute that has been cleaned with commercial mold killer then rinsed thoroughly with water (there is basically no problem with running water through the bore, though you would need to dry it fairly quickly so as to prevent further mold development) use your nose.  If you can't smell it, then it's okay.
If you want to coat the bore with an oil, I don't think it's necessary to submerge it in oil.  Rather, run an oiled cloth through the bore once a week for a while and see what happens.  Too much would not be of benefit.  The types of oil you suggest are fine, however I think the linseed might retain its odor for quite some time.  I use camellia oil which is also readily available here.
Good luck!


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#3 2010-08-03 07:33:03

Danny
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

Thanks a lot Jeff - I think I'll go with a mold killer and have a look at lacquer/oil options tomorrow. Do people keep playing their shakuhachi when there's mold in the bore?

Maybe I should take the path of least resistance ;-)


http://dustymoon.org/

Follow the ancient path / deep into mountains / and go further still..

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#4 2010-08-03 07:59:51

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

Excellent advice from Jeff. I would add:

Some flutes are more prone to mold growth than others. My Ichijo's have never had any mold on 'em, even though stored in plastic sleeves with dampened pieces of sponge (climate here is very dry), while a Yung 2.1 Chinese madake I have gets it sometimes (lacquered bore, too).

I've always used just a dilute bleach solution and an old toothbrush to clean up any mold, then a quick rinse and wipe. Bleach kills mold. Period. No fancy commercial ingredients required or desired.

Blowing into the bag is a bad idea, as it introduces living things from your breath into the bag along with the flute. Petri dish in a bag. Use a dampened piece of sponge if you use anything at all.

Last edited by edosan (2010-08-03 08:00:46)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#5 2010-08-04 22:14:45

Danny
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

Thanks edosan

Well I used bleach in the bore - a couple of applications and rinses. Most of the mold is gone, and I'm guessing what's left has been neutralised. I also applied danish oil to the inside and outside of the flute and it's now airing in the basement. I must say I'm a little concerned that the bleach may dehydrate the bamboo - I sprayed some water with tea tree oil after the bleach and let sit for a few minutes, then wiped it out, before letting the flute dry for an hour or so before oiling. There's a kind of "dry skin" effect in parts of the bore (maybe some residue from the bleach?)

I'm completely new to all of this, but from what I've read, if the oil creates a vapour barrier, then oiling it after bleaching may actually prevent the flute from rehydrating during playing etc. I guess I'll find out in the course of time... any thoughts anyone?

Cheers


http://dustymoon.org/

Follow the ancient path / deep into mountains / and go further still..

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#6 2010-08-05 00:07:11

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

Danny wrote:

Thanks edosan

Well I used bleach in the bore - a couple of applications and rinses. Most of the mold is gone, and I'm guessing what's left has been neutralised. I also applied danish oil to the inside and outside of the flute and it's now airing in the basement. I must say I'm a little concerned that the bleach may dehydrate the bamboo - I sprayed some water with tea tree oil after the bleach and let sit for a few minutes, then wiped it out, before letting the flute dry for an hour or so before oiling. There's a kind of "dry skin" effect in parts of the bore (maybe some residue from the bleach?)

I'm completely new to all of this, but from what I've read, if the oil creates a vapour barrier, then oiling it after bleaching may actually prevent the flute from rehydrating during playing etc. I guess I'll find out in the course of time... any thoughts anyone?

Cheers

The bleach will not harm nor dry the bore in any way, if you rinse it out carefully. I suggest you quit fiddling with it, and just keep it properly (not overly)
humidified and stick to the bleach if you do get mold. Tablespoon or two in a cup of water. Danish oil finish is for furniture, not musical instruments that one blows and inhales through.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#7 2010-08-05 00:41:11

Danny
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

edosan wrote:

Danish oil finish is for furniture, not musical instruments that one blows and inhales through.

Haha, yeah it's pretty potent. I noticed a few other people on the forum had used it - anyway I'll leave it at one coat and hopefully avoid brain damage/cancer. wink


http://dustymoon.org/

Follow the ancient path / deep into mountains / and go further still..

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#8 2010-08-05 07:03:34

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Flute care: mold in bore

One advantage to putting a coat of something (ideally urushi or some kind of lacqer anyway) in the bore--apart from protecting it--is that it seals the micropores in the bamboo and decreases acoustic losses. The flute should actually play slightly better with a nice coat of something inside.

Toby

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