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#1 2010-07-26 23:12:52

Justin
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History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

[Starting from another topic the conversation has shifted topic so I'm moving it here that it may be easier to find for future reference]
Original topic - scroll up to message #34:
http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.ph … 189#p33189

To add some history to the "shiro-fu" - the gaikyoku pieces with the white covers - Araki Kodo III's notation was the original shiro-fu. Uehara Kyodo and Kawase Junsuke worked together with Araki Kodo III in making this notation for Araki Kodo III's school, which was the main branch of Kinko-ryu. As far as I understand for those first scores the music was from Araki Kodo III, the timing marks system was from Uehara Kyodo, and Kawase Junsuke was the scribe. All 3 were students of Araki Kodo II. This may have been some time around 1911.

After some time Kawase split off and made his own notation, setting up business and traveling around Japan selling his notation. At that time printed gaikyoku notation was rare - up until then the school had been using Araki Kodo II's hand written scores - and even hand written pieces may not have been common for many of the pieces of the repertoire. Also thanks to the timing marks which Uehara had contributed, this notation was very effective. Kawase's business flourished, attracting many members to his school which continues today, as Chikuyusha.

There are differences in these two types of notation, Kawase's and Kodo's. I play from Kodo's though I began on Kawase's and those of Chikumeisha (which I don't know too much about). I have not compared them carefully but I have been told that the main difference lies in Kawase's sticking more literally to the shamisen part, where Kodo's has somewhat more variation as Kodo was a keen arranger of the music, just as koto shamisen and voice are at times playing alternative melodies. Someone else may be able to speak about this.

Kodo III's scores continued to be used by Kodo IV and Kodo V. Notomi Judo, one of Kodo III's senior students, seems to have copied Kodo's shiro-fu for use in his own school, Domon-kai after Kodo III passed away. From there we come to Daniel's story about how that leads to Fuji Jido and so on. [see link above, or perhaps Daniel will re-post it here].

As for the honkyoku, in Araki Kodo's school we use Kodo III's honkyoku scores and occasionally Kodo II's. Fuji Jido's are very near to this with only some minor differences.

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#2 2010-07-27 02:38:34

Tairaku 太楽
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

I have a bunch of scores from Inoue Shigemi's branch. They're very nice because the koto notation is written to the side. But I still mainly use the Kawase scores because that's what I learned.


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#3 2010-07-27 04:30:08

No-sword
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Stepping back a generation... At Komuso.com's entry for Kawase Junsuke I, it says "Kodo II's shakuhachi notation was written in a very peculiar calligraphic style, somewhat difficult to read." Does anyone know what exactly was so "peculiar" about Araki Kodo II's calligraphy?


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#4 2010-07-27 05:05:15

Justin
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Not particularly peculiar. Perhaps like the difference in English between good clear hand writing and printed/typed letters. That is to say, not as different as "printed" kanji and those super-fast looking calligraphic kanji which many people can't read. I have no trouble reading Chikuo's writing, so it sounds like an exaggeration to me. On that page is says Miura Kindo and Mizuno Rodo continued that style of writing. You can see Mizuno Rodo's notation on the "lessons" page of my website. I find none of these writers hard to read though I do come across some Japanese people who at first can't even see that it's katakana! But that also applies to notation of other schools. Once I get used to it I find this style far more beautiful, more pleasant to read from, and certainly not slower.

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#5 2010-07-27 05:20:39

Justin
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Tairaku 太楽 wrote:

I have a bunch of scores from Inoue Shigemi's branch. They're very nice because the koto notation is written to the side. But I still mainly use the Kawase scores because that's what I learned.

In the early Kodo III scores the main melody was in black, and where there were alternative melodies they would be in red. These are my favourite scores. So where there is red, the shakuhachi takes that part, and the black is the strings (usually shamisen). Kawase did the same in his scores but they were all in black, usually with the strings (when different) in smaller writing to the side. Also after the war Kodo's became all black. I think this was unfortunate. Perhaps a reflection of the economic situation of Japan n those times?

Shigemi was Kawase's student. I have his scores too but haven't checked to see if he made more new melodies compared to Kawase or perhaps Kawase wrote less of the string parts when they differed?

Another difference in scores is the writing of meri and kari. In the old days they were only written if they were not the expected notes according to the rules of the scales of sankyoku. Or they were written at the beginning of a key change to indicate such, but once you were in that new key, again only written if the note would be different from the note expected according to the key. This gave the players a good understanding of the different keys.

Since these rules changed with the emergence of new genres, new music could not be written like this. So where it was meri, it would always be written meri. And if people played this new music a lot, they would likely get confused by reading the old style sankyoku notation. I assume this to be the reason why, at some stage, Chikuyusha started to make notation with all the kari or meri marks written. This work was not always done perfectly so in these scores there are occasionally places where one has to write in the ones they missed! In Kodo-kai we still use the old style, with only the necessary marks written. Daniel, perhaps it is the same for your school also?

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#6 2010-07-27 07:09:18

Glenn Swann
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

very interesting thread.
in Kawase Sensei's  teaching-room, he has on display the original calligraphy his grandfather wrote of the titles for the scores. was so cool to see them larger.... they are all just kind of written in  lines, strung together piece-to-piece with no breaks between titles.

i got a bunch of the antique scores from Komuso.com when they were selling them, and i remember at first being thrown by the non-presence of meri marks, then suddenly "got it" and would realize when it needed to be meri and not. it is really good practice indeed for understanding the music.


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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#7 2010-08-05 09:49:18

No-sword
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From: Kanagawa
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

New question: What's the deal with "hi" (as opposed to "go no hi") in the lower register? As far as I can tell, for Chikuyusha it doesn't exist except as part of the "hi re" phrase. But I have seen it in some older books claiming Kinko ryu, as an alternate fingering for the same pitch as "ri".

Here's an example from "Kinko ryu honkyoku no shiori", a 1915 book by Omura Joshin 大村如心 (I would have expected "Nyoshin"... the Japanese National Diet library says "Joshin" but who knows where they got that).

http://www.no-sword.jp/images/misc/kinko-ro-hi.jpg

I've also seen charts where a meri'd "go no hi" (Db on a 1.8) is just written "hi", but can't remember where, or what school.

I suppose this is one of those areas where traditions differ, but can it all be tied together somehow from a historical perspective?

Related bonus question: How exactly do you play the "hi re" phrase? (Edit: Not "how does one play it?" but "how did your teacher teach you to play it?")

Last edited by No-sword (2010-08-05 10:13:03)


Matt / no-sword.jp

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#8 2010-08-05 13:19:53

Justin
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From: Japan
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Hi Matt,
In Kodo-kai we still use "hi" in otsu, which uses the 2nd hole open to create a different tone colour to "ri".

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#9 2010-08-05 20:16:15

No-sword
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From: Kanagawa
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Interesting -- so it may be a Kawase innovation? Maybe related to "ri" being played with 2 and 5 closed and 1 shaded.

Would be interested in hearing more about this from other schools, too.


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#10 2010-08-05 22:48:51

Justin
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Why would it be a Kawase innovation? Kawase broke off from Kodo's school, not the other way round.

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#11 2010-08-05 23:08:15

No-sword
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From: Kanagawa
Registered: 2008-07-09
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Sorry, I guess I was being unclear -- what I was referring to as the "innovation" was the REMOVAL of "hi".

My thinking is: Kodo uses it, logically there's no reason it shouldn't be there, there's at least one other 1915 "Kinko" book that includes it, yet Kawase's teaching materials specifically say that "hi" is only in kan (except "hi re" of course, which only appears in otsu). So the logical assumption would be that banishing "hi" from otsu was something Kawase did sometime after breaking off from Kodo. Relating it to the shaded "ri" is more of a guess, obviously.

(I'm assuming that if there was evidence for the Kodo line having ADDED the "hi", you would be aware of this and would have mentioned it.)

Last edited by No-sword (2010-08-05 23:10:07)


Matt / no-sword.jp

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#12 2010-08-06 00:34:14

Justin
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

No-sword wrote:

Sorry, I guess I was being unclear -- what I was referring to as the "innovation" was the REMOVAL of "hi".

My thinking is: Kodo uses it, logically there's no reason it shouldn't be there, there's at least one other 1915 "Kinko" book that includes it, yet Kawase's teaching materials specifically say that "hi" is only in kan (except "hi re" of course, which only appears in otsu). So the logical assumption would be that banishing "hi" from otsu was something Kawase did sometime after breaking off from Kodo.

I don't know much about contemporary Chikuyusha practice but I have heard a number of times people say that there is not much honkyoku playing in Chikuyusha. Is this true? If they are not keen on honkyoku, this could explain the situation, since this is a honkyoku note specifically.

No-sword wrote:

(I'm assuming that if there was evidence for the Kodo line having ADDED the "hi", you would be aware of this and would have mentioned it.)

Yes. Certainly otsu no hi was used in the Edo period and before the time of even Araki Kodo II. I have Ikkan-ryu notation from 1826 to confirm this. You may then ask whether it existed only in the Ikkan-ryu branch, since Kodo II studied not only under Hisamatsu Fuyo (the 4th head of Kinko-ryu) but also under Toyoda Kodo of Ikkan-ryu, unifying these two branches as the 6th head of Kinko-ryu.

To answer this question I refer to Yoshida Itchou (the 5th head of Kinko-ryu)'s notation, who also studied under Hisamatsu Fuyo, who studied under Kurosawa Kinko III. We may be able to assume kept strictly to Hisamatsu's style. Well, here also we find otsu no hi.

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#13 2010-08-06 01:13:47

No-sword
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From: Kanagawa
Registered: 2008-07-09
Posts: 115
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

Justin wrote:

I don't know much about contemporary Chikuyusha practice but I have heard a number of times people say that there is not much honkyoku playing in Chikuyusha. Is this true? If they are not keen on honkyoku, this could explain the situation, since this is a honkyoku note specifically.

To be honest I haven't been formally involved with Chikuyusha for long enough to say. My teacher wants me to first get in shape to play with strings ASAP, so hasn't yet taught me any honkyoku. But he has played me some (with the implication that he'll be teaching it soon enough, certainly before I reach kaiden or whatever), and I've been invited to stick around to watch honkyoku practice sessions with a more advanced student. It's certainly a big part of what he does with the shakuhachi, but I've got no idea how typical this is of Chikuyusha practices.

Maybe when it's time for honkyoku it'll be revealed that the teaching materials I have apply to sankyoku only and, surprise, in honkyoku we totally have "hi" in otsu. That would make this thread fairly embarrassing.

When you say it is a honkyoku note specifically, do you mean that it is not used at all in Kodo gaikyoku notation?

Last edited by No-sword (2010-08-06 01:15:29)


Matt / no-sword.jp

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#14 2010-08-06 08:21:32

Glenn Swann
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From: Central New Jersey
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 151
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Re: History of Sankyoku/Gaikyoku notation in Kinko-ryu

very interesting discussion.... i was originally taught to play (by non- Chikuyusha teacher) otsu no HI in honkyoku the same as RI, so never really thought about different fingering....
will definitely ask Kawase Sensei about it next lesson, in a few weeks....


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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