Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2005-11-21 23:09:59

steven
Member
From: Seattle
Registered: 2005-11-15
Posts: 13

beginner's notation question

I have some questions about reading notation, perhaps this should be in technique... but

I'm learning without a teacher, and have been using "Introductory Manual for Kinko Honkyoku" by Robert Grous. If someone could help clarify some things I'd greatly appreciate it.

1) Going from ryo to kan and back again. The following instruction is given, "once an octave change has been made (e.g., from ri to ro-kan) all the notes which follow are in the new octave". My question is, for how long do you stay in that new octave? Until an explicit symbol tells you to change, or for example do you change back at a breath mark, or at the bottom of the line?

2.1) It seems like the obvious answer to (1) is to stay until told to change by an explicit symbol, but there are things in the examples that make me think otherwise. For instance, there is a specific symbol for ri, and one for hi. It is my understanding that hi is basically ri in the high (kan) octave with slightly different fingering. If this understanding is true, why is it that only sometimes does the notation use hi when a switch to kan has been made and sometimes still uses ri? Hope this question makes sense.

2.2) Along similar lines, sometimes I encounter a symbol for kan, but due to a ri-to-ryo change, I'm already playing in kan. This makes me think that there is some reason why one goes back to ryo, but I don't know what it is.

Perhaps these questions are ideosyncratic to Mr. Grous's system, I don't know. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Steven

Offline

 

#2 2005-11-22 03:05:18

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: beginner's notation question

steven wrote:

1) Going from ryo to kan and back again. The following instruction is given, "once an octave change has been made (e.g., from ri to ro-kan) all the notes which follow are in the new octave". My question is, for how long do you stay in that new octave? Until an explicit symbol tells you to change, or for example do you change back at a breath mark, or at the bottom of the line?

2.1) It seems like the obvious answer to (1) is to stay until told to change by an explicit symbol, but there are things in the examples that make me think otherwise. For instance, there is a specific symbol for ri, and one for hi. It is my understanding that hi is basically ri in the high (kan) octave with slightly different fingering. If this understanding is true, why is it that only sometimes does the notation use hi when a switch to kan has been made and sometimes still uses ri? Hope this question makes sense.

It's hard to comment upon notation that's not in front of you. But generally Japanese traditional music does not have large intervallic leaps as in Western music. Most of the time music proceeds up and down from one note to one or two notes above or below. So if you have any doubts about which octave the note on the page is identify the pitch of the previous note and go to the nearest example of the note in question. For example you see ri. The next note is ro. We know that it is ro in the high octave because that note is closer in pitch to ri than low octave ro is. It is the exceptions that are notated with otsu or kan signs. Or when the music shifts suddenly from one register to the other, such as the start of a new section or dan. So the answer to the question "how long do you stay in this octave?" is "until the music leads you by adjacent pitches into the other octave". I hope this explanation is clear? This is one of the most confusing points for beginners. Compounded by the fact that some octaves of the same note have the same name and symbol, while others have their own name, as you pointed out with ri and hi. However if you keep in mind that the music is almost always moving in small intervals that should help you to determine which octave is happening even if there is no specific mention in the notation. Go to the note that is closest to the previous note in pitch.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

Offline

 

#3 2005-11-22 09:27:14

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: beginner's notation question

What Tairaku said. If it helps to codify it into general rules, they would be:

1. You stay in the octave indicated unless there is a kan or otsu sign, in which case you switch appropriately, or unless you encounter a ri, which is the "pivot note" between the two registers.

2. If the note after the ri is a ro or a tsu, you go up, into the kan register. If it's anything else, you go down, staying in otsu. (This is the practical application of the "small interval" idea.) Now back to step 1.

Of course there are occasional exceptions or notational inconsistencies, so use your ears to determine what makes sense in context.

Good luck!

Offline

 

#4 2005-11-22 11:22:04

steven
Member
From: Seattle
Registered: 2005-11-15
Posts: 13

Re: beginner's notation question

Thank you both very much, the explanations are quite helpful. I appreciated both the narrative and rule versions together.

Steven

Offline

 

#5 2005-11-22 14:21:45

jeff jones
Member
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
Website

Re: beginner's notation question

Yes,thank you both.That was very helpful.


Beauty is ugly at rest

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google