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#1 2010-09-13 22:01:29

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

9 hole shakuhachi

hi guys,
a friend gave me recently a 7 hole plastic shakuhachi (looks like Yuu). i was thinking to add 2 more holes (just for the fun of it;-)
Any suggestions where to drill?

best
Geni

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#2 2010-09-13 22:41:36

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

Under any available fingers you can move smile

There's not many options.


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#3 2010-09-14 18:11:25

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

"Just for the fun of it" is going to create some interesting tuning problems, since you will not be able to move the holes that are already drilled in order to compensate for the extra venting.

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#4 2010-09-14 19:17:40

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

Toby wrote:

"Just for the fun of it" is going to create some interesting tuning problems, since you will not be able to move the holes that are already drilled in order to compensate for the extra venting.

Isn't the reason the extra holes on a 7 hole flute are small because that way they don't bother the acoustic properties of the shakuhachi as much? Less extra venting.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#5 2010-09-15 00:02:33

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

No, it has to do with placement and perhaps convenience. The only difference acoustically venting a hole that size does not become significant until the very highest notes in the dai-kan.

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#6 2010-09-15 08:14:27

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

Toby wrote:

No, it has to do with placement and perhaps convenience. The only difference acoustically venting a hole that size does not become significant until the very highest notes in the dai-kan.

I don't understand, the holes on a seven hole flute are placed so they can play Eb and Bb (on a 1.8). A maker would have to chime in to verify, but I didn't think the other 5 holes needed to be be moved when converting a 5 hole to a 7 hole flute.

Actually, I think I'm totally lost, there shouldn't be any extra venting due to extra holes that you keep closed with your fingers until you want to access the notes.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#7 2010-09-15 09:47:04

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

radi0gnome wrote:

Toby wrote:

No, it has to do with placement and perhaps convenience. The only difference acoustically venting a hole that size does not become significant until the very highest notes in the dai-kan.

I don't understand, the holes on a seven hole flute are placed so they can play Eb and Bb (on a 1.8). A maker would have to chime in to verify, but I didn't think the other 5 holes needed to be be moved when converting a 5 hole to a 7 hole flute.

Actually, I think I'm totally lost, there shouldn't be any extra venting due to extra holes that you keep closed with your fingers until you want to access the notes.

Hi Chris, I recently converted two flutes from the standard 5 hole to the 7 hole. I think the 1.8 was slightly easier because the bore was bigger and thus more forgiving. New smaller holes should have less negative affects on the original, larger holes. As Toby mentioned, one perceived problem is that they may play flat in Kan because of the size and difficulty in undercutting. The small Tsu Meri holes are often only around only 3mm in diameter and drilled at an angle for proper pitch. There are a myriad of deciding factors that go into making new holes, mainly location and size which determines pitch, volume and tone color. When placed properly, the new smaller holes should contribute to the existing "uniform" feel of the flute, they shouldn't feel too different in tone color and resistance. Obviously, it takes some consideration as it can be a very personal thing for some players.

It's tricky business. Geni has very little choice in where the 2 extra holes can go on a 7 hole and still have full facility in his fingerings. I tried a 9 hole from Akikazu Nakamura when I was studying with him. It was a very well made instrument, but I saw right away that one would have to spend serious time to learn how to play a 9 hole.  For me, at that time (and even today), 5 holes are plenty to keep me interested!

All traditional shakuhachi are hand made. Even with 2nd and 3rd opinions, one can never be sure how they will behave when put under the knife.

- Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#8 2010-09-15 13:14:03

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

cool. yes, i will stick with 5 holes for my main shakuhachi.

So, this flutes comes from Akikazu Nakamura- he gave it to his jazz teacher at Berklee-who later became my teacher & recently gave me this flute. Its good marchng band shakuhachi ;-)

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#9 2010-09-17 10:40:12

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

If the holes are small there won't be much effect when they are closed, but every extra compliance in the bore will make it appear longer to the air column and flatten the overall pitch somewhat. When the holes are open they add extra venting, and again there will be some difference, although you are right that it is likely to be small  in most cases. However those extra holes might definitely cause problems in some of the kan and dai-kan notes that require cross fingerings. Maybe, maybe not: I can't predict it, but there will be some changes.

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#10 2010-09-17 15:27:16

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: 9 hole shakuhachi

thanks for the advice guys. so Toby, do you make any flutes yourself also?

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