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  •  » Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

#1 2010-11-02 16:03:08

Jivanmukta
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 31

Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Hello,

Beginner, have been practicing for appr. 4 months.

The heading says it all.
What is it?
More important - how to solve it?

Thanks :-)


Talk less - do more

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#2 2010-11-02 18:26:08

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Jivanmukta wrote:

Hello,

Beginner, have been practicing for appr. 4 months.

The heading says it all.
What is it?
More important - how to solve it?

Thanks :-)

One question comes to mind: You getting enough sleep?


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2010-11-02 18:31:22

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

I've heard that yawning is often a subconscious way of repressing energy. Based on that, a possible cause might be that the shakuhachi is tapping into energy levels that you are not accustomed to and are subconsciously trying to repress in order to feel "normal".


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#4 2010-11-02 18:43:25

Ralf
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 10

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

You might also want to try breathing out through your nose a bit, as it regulates the oxygen release more than breathing out through the mouth (not sure of specifics, but just read about it again in a book on anatomy for dancers.) Mouth for playing, nose for turning pages/etc :-)

Ralf

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#5 2010-11-03 04:18:43

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Ralf wrote:

You might also want to try breathing out through your nose a bit, as it regulates the oxygen release more than breathing out through the mouth (not sure of specifics, but just read about it again in a book on anatomy for dancers.) Mouth for playing, nose for turning pages/etc :-)

Ralf

Um, question: How does one play the shakuhachi whilst breathing OUT through the nose?


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#6 2010-11-03 05:58:19

Eugene
Member
From: Singapore
Registered: 2010-05-10
Posts: 12
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

fouw wrote:

Somebody is going to write: 'get yourself a ......"

... bed? :p

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#7 2010-11-03 10:20:04

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Unwarranted fatique and yawning are a way for the mind to discourage us from undertaking new or difficult tasks.  It often happens to people that are beginning a meditation practice, as well as accounting for my lack-luster performance at work wink.  It is kind of defense mechanism that the mind uses to stay lazy.  It may or may not be pertinent in your case, but there is only one way to deal with it, push through.  Well, I guess you could get your hands on some hard core stimulants, but that presents a whole new set of problems.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#8 2010-11-03 14:33:17

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Moran from Planet X wrote:

lowonthetotem wrote:

...   you could get your hands on some hard core stimulants ...

Just as I said, poised but relaxed

Then just add some opiates. Or you could just go to Starbucks, I think the sugar buzz takes the edge off the caffeine and has the same effect, wide awake but without the jitters.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#9 2010-11-03 17:19:45

Jivanmukta
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 31

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

What a lovely bunch of people, and so many nice suggestions!!
I am surprised if I am the only who experience these bizzarre attacks of yawning and tiredness...

Of course, even before God, regarding shakuhachi I listen seriously only to my Shakuhachi teacher!
So of course I know the answer which partly and basically is like this:

Don't worry, keep practicing, it will stop.

Anyway,
More sleep sounds great! Good idea, I'll try that!
Stimulants: Will have to check with my teacher and hear what he says smile
So far I only go for espresso double and good chocolate.
Also very interesting other suggestions - the mind making a kind of sabotage or untouched energy levels being moved.
Actually alle the suggestions are great.

I was a yogateacher for many years and remember the MD who very surprised and excited said the yoga was much better than valium!!

Last edited by Jivanmukta (2010-11-03 17:20:46)


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#10 2010-11-03 17:24:33

Jivanmukta
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 31

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

fouw wrote:

Um, question: How does one play the shakuhachi whilst breathing OUT through the nose?

Now Edosan, I'm disappointed.
The technique is simply the reverse of circular breathing!

But seriously, the solution to Jivanmukta's problem will be given in a post yet to be made.
Somebody is going to write: 'get yourself a ......"       (hint: Skype might be mentioned too)

Ciao,
Kees

Kees - have you forgotten me after the days and drinks in Prague?


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#11 2010-11-03 17:40:02

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1521
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Jivanmukta wrote:

Kees - have you forgotten me after the days and drinks in Prague?

Ah, Prague ...

Yes, you will always have Prague ...


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#12 2010-11-04 16:36:40

Jivanmukta
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 31

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

fouw wrote:

The guy who most of the time keeps his hat on, Kees Kort. We know each other and have had drinks as well.....
Next year, if Marek succeeds in organising another festival, we can have drinks the three of us!

BTW: sorry about my silly joking since you do have a teacher.....

Oh yeah, Kees Kort, thats the guy.....warm and actively welcoming a beginner like me
There will be a festival in Basel next year I think, maybe we meet here there, I buy! Hopefully we find trappist beer, its difficult to find here in Norway. I'm sure the beer will help releasing the tensions that creates the yawning.
J


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#13 2010-11-28 16:28:57

Jivanmukta
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2010-06-13
Posts: 31

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

The solution for me was to play more of the things that I actually manage to play.....
So now I often play the practices from TAKE-NO-MICHI -The Path of Bamboo: A Beginner's Guide to Learning Shakuhachi Honkyoku, Takashi Tokuyama. Beginning from the beginning, and play through 20 - 3+ minutes of easily playable things.
After that I am ready to take up more difficult pieces and tones ....

J


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#14 2010-11-29 04:53:23

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 917
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

That actually sounds like you sound a good solution. The most important when learning is to enjoy playing. And some times it is a good idea to take the time to enjoy what you can play and not only push on to learn new repertoire. The latter is necessary, of course, but the more you get enjoyment and soul into the playing the better you will improve anyway.
Good luck!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#15 2010-11-29 08:29:28

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Kiku Day wrote:

That actually sounds like you sound a good solution. The most important when learning is to enjoy playing. And some times it is a good idea to take the time to enjoy what you can play and not only push on to learn new repertoire. The latter is necessary, of course, but the more you get enjoyment and soul into the playing the better you will improve anyway.
Good luck!

Someone told me recently about a saying that goes "amateurs practice until they get it right, professionals practice until they can't get it wrong". I doubt you can get anything to the "can't get it wrong" point by only pushing through new repertoire. That is, unless you call a piece "new" until then.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#16 2010-12-12 17:30:57

Itamar Foguel
Member
From: Israel
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 120
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

When i just begun playing, i went to play by myself once at sunset in the woods, i played like 5-10 minutes and then felt so tired that i just fall asleep on the rock i was sitting on, when i woke up it was already night, i slept for like a full hour on the bare rock, then i begun my walk back home and encountered a large pack of wild boars, i played them my shakuhachi to scare them away....
the whole experience was....surreal...

Anyway, shakuhachi playing now days (its mostly on long pieces and big flutes) gives me calmness and the feeling like when you just woke up in the morning and still sleepy and very calm and relaxed, i actually like it a lot.

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#17 2010-12-13 07:33:05

Mark Angevine
Member
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 26

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

How big were these boars?


"Open mouth, already a mistake"

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#18 2010-12-13 18:50:44

Itamar Foguel
Member
From: Israel
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 120
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

preety big...
they say on the site israeli wild boars might get as heavy as 150kg

http://www.gil-ad.co.il/gallery/images/animals/03.jpg

i have seen them many times while walking in the forest, usually they just snore and run away, but if its the time when they have babies, better walk slow and scare them from far away so you wont seperate them from their babies and they will attack you or threat you.

they babies are looking kinda cute

http://lib.cet.ac.il/storage/items/500_599/0000000551/0000000551_M.jpg

Last edited by Itamar Foguel (2010-12-13 18:53:10)

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#19 2010-12-13 23:23:52

mrwuwu
Member
From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 160

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Remember to save their tusks for burnishing the root ends of your shakuhachi's!


" You know, it's been three years now, maybe a new teacher can help you? ...... " Sensei

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#20 2010-12-14 04:07:04

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Playing to the boars; that's pretty cool.  One time a boar came up to my friend's cabin in the mountains here and bit a guy on the leg while he was sitting on the porch.  We then took a video of the critter.  They are quite tasty in the stew that a local shrine serves every New Year's day above a small village called Kagamimura, where we sometimes do a hike up the highest peak in the area to see the first sunrise of the year.

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2010-12-14 04:07:57)

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#21 2010-12-14 21:19:56

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Sorry to deviate, but ...Yes, tasty indeed!  Perhaps this was just retribution.  Boars have been rooting through my yard over the past couple of weeks.  Must be something tasty out there.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/breathin55/yard.jpg
Who needs a lawn anyway?


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#22 2010-12-14 21:32:15

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

Wow, that's some major rooting; if they could only be trained to dig out madake...

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#23 2010-12-14 22:26:30

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Acute yawning and tiredness during practice....

I've seen holes deeper than 30 cm made by them.  Madake size.  You may be on to something Dan.  Off to the yabu.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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