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#1 2006-09-25 15:52:07

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Need help

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and very new to Shakuhachi. I am having difficulty trying to make it sound. I've tried everything I read on this site and other websites. Still, nothing works. Is there such a thing called "too stupid to learn" ? I don't know. I have had this 1.8 Shakuhachi for 3 weeks now.

Anyway, I just thought that I'd share how I felt.

TCB

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#2 2006-09-25 16:56:26

nSkky
Member
From: Crowheart, Wyoming
Registered: 2006-09-13
Posts: 22

Re: Need help

TCB wrote:

I am new to this site and very new to Shakuhachi. I am having difficulty trying to make it sound. I've tried everything I read on this site and other websites. Still, nothing works. Is there such a thing called "too stupid to learn" ?

Fortunately, intelligence doesn't play a role in getting a sound out of a shakuhachi.

Try two things:
1) Hold your palm (open and vertical) about six inches in front of your face. Blow easily against it and vary the air stream up and down your palm—from the heel of your palm to finger tips and back down. Practice this a few times until you get the hang of it.

2) When you get ready to play your flute, feel forward with your lips and get the edge centered right between them.

Now blow easily with the up and down motion (slowly) you practiced on your palm. When the air stream is angled at the edge just right, sound will spontaneously erupt.


Nick


Dreams construct the world. --Heyoka

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#3 2006-09-25 17:05:33

thegreenman
Member
Registered: 2006-09-24
Posts: 6

Re: Need help

Hey TCB, I just started yesterday, so I'm in the same boat as you.

Fortunately I have played a little flute before and I think that helped me.
I just relax, breathe, and let the air direct me to where it should go. You want the air to kind of shear off the blade of the mouthpiece, like a cheese slicer so you have to direct a low-to moderate force stream of air into the mouthpiece just under the blade. At least that is what I've done. since I'm a newbie too, I'm just saying what worked for me, I could be doing it wrong, but hey, I've gotten some clean notes this way.

Before I got a note, I got a whistle sound, then by just changing the position/tension/force of my mouth I was able to get a nice sound (sometimes when I'm lucky).

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#4 2006-09-25 19:28:57

bluespiderweb
Member
From: Southeastern PA USA
Registered: 2005-10-31
Posts: 66

Re: Need help

Hi, and welcome to shakuhachi!  Read this post-it will probably help.

http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=166


Be well,  Barry

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#5 2006-09-26 03:40:16

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Re: Need help

Hi TCB,

Besides the important aspects of having the flute in the right position mentioned above there is something a friend (who could not make a sound either) found useful: don't try to blow but rather to sigh into the flute. Check this out: http://www.japanworldmusic.com/sigh.htm

I also think is important to have in mind that the air has to come from the stomach not the lungs. Try to breath in through your nose and breath out with a big (and focused if possible) sigh into the flute.

Hope that helps!


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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#6 2006-09-27 14:07:34

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: Need help

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I still have not gotten anywhere. The flute only sounds for 2 seconds after half hour practice, on a GOOD day.

I have a teacher, but all I am told is "keep practicing. It'll come one day." That's not very encouraging. I don't want to give up. But I don't know what else to do.

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#7 2006-09-27 14:52:47

indigo
Member
From: Brooklyn, New York
Registered: 2005-10-19
Posts: 52

Re: Need help

Dear TCB

been blowing shakuhachi for a little over 3 years

the issues of sound production are just as intense today as the day spent blowing my first 1.8 w/out getting a "sound"

for me blowing gives an amazing progression in relation to the "impossible"

hold the utaguchi end of the flute to your ear and listen to the sound your flute produces automatically, try different fingerings and listen

one teacher recommended pressing the upper lip into the lower lip sending a stream of air towards the nose without the flute as a way of understanding the dynamic of the ombasure  (as children do, as we have done since the beginning)

found that the image of blowing across a bottle and doing so helped

blow once into the flute, blow once into space, blow into the flute...etc.

the sound is already there

so is meri kari

as we blow into space

all the best

indigo

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#8 2006-09-27 15:26:53

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Need help

TCB wrote:

The flute only sounds for 2 seconds after half hour practice, on a GOOD day.

A month into it, I think you have to accept this.  It's early.  Keep at it!

If you thought a month's practice was going to give you a lot of sound out of a shakuhachi, someone may have tricked you! wink

TCB wrote:

I still have not gotten anywhere.

I doubt it.  There are many ways to measure progress.  Pick one that encourages you to keep practicing! 

Hint:  Don't judge your practice sessions based on the sounds that came out.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#9 2006-09-27 21:25:16

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Need help

This has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, so you may already have seen it, but it bears repeating:

For the time being, forget about closing the tone holes; blow into the shakuhachi with all the holes open. You don't even need to hold the flute 'properly'; just grab it with one hand and start experimenting with different angles and vary the pressure against your chin (but, in general, keep the pressure pretty light).

Make small adjustments, and try to be somewhat systematic, so you can parse out the things that work for you.

Mostly, just keep doing it...

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#10 2006-09-28 08:54:00

thegreenman
Member
Registered: 2006-09-24
Posts: 6

Re: Need help

Maybe you have a damaged Shaku?

Do you have facial hair? that could be a problem as well.

Your lower lip should rest gently across the opening of the flute with the utaguchi ( the edge) just above your lower lip.

I think mouth/lip shape and size makes a huge difference.  Perhaps you should try a larger/smaller bore Shakuhachi.

I have a rather small mouth, and I think this makes it easier for me on a 1.8.

You CAN do it!

Don't give up.

Last edited by thegreenman (2006-09-28 09:12:59)

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#11 2006-09-28 09:58:14

Kamesan
Member
Registered: 2006-09-28
Posts: 14

Re: Need help

TCB wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and very new to Shakuhachi. I am having difficulty trying to make it sound. I've tried everything I read on this site and other websites. Still, nothing works. Is there such a thing called "too stupid to learn" ? I don't know. I have had this 1.8 Shakuhachi for 3 weeks now.

Anyway, I just thought that I'd share how I felt.

TCB

what kind of shakuhachi are you playing?

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#12 2006-09-29 11:39:53

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: Need help

Thanks again for all the advices. I have a wooden 1.8 shakuhachi. According to my teacher, it is traditional style. I have thought about something being wrong with the flute. My teacher tried it and it sounded great. I think the problem here is really me.

I have gotten just a little better. I can make some sound now but have difficult to keep the wind out. There is a mixture of wind and some sound. How do I adjust to make "sharper" sound?

Also, can anyone please advise how I should monitor my "progress" and how to pace out the process of learning this instrument? Thank you very much again.

P.S. I feel very welcomed by everyone.

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#13 2006-09-29 11:54:51

PSTL
Member
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Registered: 2006-08-02
Posts: 67

Re: Need help

TCB,

You might consider allowing your teacher to monitor your progress. I also recommend that you practice every day for at least an hour. If you do this, I guarantee that you will be very pleased with your development. The shakuhachi is an excellent tool for developing patience.

Enjoy!

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#14 2006-09-29 12:38:16

jeff jones
Member
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
Website

Re: Need help

Hi TCB

  Edoson made a very good sudjestion when he said" For the time being, forget about closing the tone holes; blow into the shakuhachi with all the holes open. You don't even need to hold the flute 'properly'; just grab it with one hand and start experimenting with different angles and vary the pressure against your chin (but, in general, keep the pressure pretty light)."
   I still do that when i'm  having a iffy day.Also I would sudjest blowing Ro and experimenting with different spots on your chin and adjusting the angle slitely.Eventually you'll hit that spot,then freze and do it over and over.Dont answer the phone when you get it.
  Also sometimes I found that the harder you try to push the ait through,the quieter the sound.Until you gat better cuntrole of the flute.Just a thought.Also the angle of youe head is kind of important,imagion a slight wind behind you ,giving your head a little nudge.

Good luck

Last edited by jeff jones (2006-09-29 14:49:36)


Beauty is ugly at rest

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#15 2006-09-29 13:04:25

rob+kat
Member
Registered: 2006-09-07
Posts: 24

Re: Need help

"hold the utaguchi end of the flute to your ear and listen to the sound your flute produces automatically, try different fingerings and listen"
That is an amazing thing, and the root end sounds completly different.
Thanks to everyone helping out us rookies.
Robert

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#16 2006-09-29 14:43:55

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Need help

...

Practicing 'every day for at least an hour' might indeed work, but from my experience it may be whipping the horse a bit, just increasing your
frustration.

At your stage of the game, I'd suggest a couple of shorter sessions daily, say 15-20 minutes each, and confine most of your efforts to
just relaxing and getting a consistent sound.

...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#17 2006-10-01 17:17:51

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: Need help

I am using the method suggested by Edosan. I can blow on the flute with the first 4 holes covered, but on the last one, I can rarely make it work. I get more wind then anything else, although I keep the same angle, the same method of blowing as before?!

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