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#1 2006-10-09 10:48:06

Safiya
Member
From: Paris
Registered: 2006-01-20
Posts: 25

Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

This message is addressed to those who owned or have owned a Bonchiku.
I know there are hundred of them, all different, but there is a character and orientation of each maker, and I've heard some mp3 played with them.
I'm searching for a very good clssical 1.8 flute to grow with, as I'm growing faster than I though in my practice, thanks to both my teacher and to my passion for this instrument playing sometimes more than 2 hours a day. I allready own a David Brown 1.8 and a very nice Jinashi high end Chikusing 2.0 from Perry Yung. There are from time to time second hand Bonchiku to sell, thus more affordable for me than new one and I'm tempted to go this way, specially when audition is possible, alltough it is going to travel from US to Europe.
My interrogations are:
These flutes seems fragile and most of them are cracked, from lightly to seriously. Is it specific to this maker?
Also, it seems they are quite bright, and they like to be played strongly, powerfully to get them at their best. And seemingly not that easy to play for a beginner. Thus refering specially to one I could go for.
What attracts me is that I like to push instruments to their limit, search for unheard before notes, get the wider gamut of tones, expressions. Play it either for kinko and impro, but I like to play also slowly, in finesse, and except at some moment when mimicking Jimmy Hendrix for fun, or jazzy, I don't like to play that loud, rather like to listen carefully to the sound and play sometime slow and sometimes fast, but not shouting.
My teacher who learned through a tozan teacher - seems to like the Bonchiku, probably goes well with his personal taste, but I'm wondering if this flute is a good allround instrument too, matching my personal taste as described -hard to predict. Also I'm short in money and this represent allmost a 2 years investment in buying a second hand. Thus my questionning.
Any feeling you have if it can fit the bill? I know, difficult to answer. I'm may be over exagerating it's specificities heard by word of mounth. But if I could try a bunch of shakuhachi, I would know easily where my liking goes. Also one need to have if possible a few instruments to play according for their feelings of the day, if one can afford.
Buying a cracked SH flute for a big amount of money seems a bit weird, but I understand the sound is the main thing.
So advice welcome and if you thing of other routes for let say 1500 usd or a little higher, let me know.
Thank you for reading and need to express this forum is usefull and mostly of very good interest. Thank you Ken.
Cheers


Through conscious beings, the universe has generated self awareness

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#2 2006-10-09 19:33:20

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

I've heard some good things about Bonchiku, he apparently has made flutes for Mitsuhachi Kifu from time-to-time. He is part of the so-called Chikusen chain, which tends to have a similar sound though.  But the lighter colors and  your tendencies probably have to do with the price range you are looking at. If the flute ended up with a darker, more aesthetically pleasing look, the price will probably start around $3,000.    I think any makers flutes can crack, and  be bound of course, but many of those end up being sold. Hence the large amount of second hand flutes with cracks.
Another person in the Chikusen chain is Tom Deaver, however, he has studied the Kinko system in detail and he can adjust his flutes so that they produce a sound Kinko players value. He has made flutes for Yokoyama Katsuya, and he also has many very good quality reasonably priced flutes.
You might also look at Chikuyu   (http://www.chikuyu.com/)   Just click on the size you are looking for at the top of the screen. His flutes are often very light because I don't think he uses a lot of Ji.   Just my 2 cents. Take your time in looking for that special flute.
Josh

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#3 2006-10-09 19:53:11

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

All bamboo flutes have a potential to crack - regardless of the maker.

While one could make generalizations about the flutes of a particular maker, there is so much variance from instrument to instrument that to say you should get a shakuhachi from maker X is not a very valuable peice of advice.  And furthermore what is a good shakuhachi for your teacher might be terrible for you.  There is a lot of personal preference involved.

When shopping for a shakuhachi just make sure you get a reasonable time to audition the instrument - the only real measure of whether a shakuhachi will be good for you is how good you sound on it, and how much you enjoy playing it. And the only way to know that is to try the flute and blow.  In short, there are no short cuts....

But if you find the process of spending thousands of dollars on an an instrument while having very little selection, little knowledge, and virtually no opportunity to compare instruments side by side  a little stressful, than all I can say is:  Welcome to the club!

shakuhachi shopping, especially on a limited budget, can drive one a little nuts.

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#4 2006-10-09 23:16:11

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

Seth wrote:

the only real measure of whether a shakuhachi will be good for you is how good you sound on it, and how much you enjoy playing it. And the only way to know that is to try the flute and blow.

I don't completely agree with that. If you haven't been playing quite a few years, it is very difficult to judge the quality of a flute. A flute that might be easy for you to play right now, and that sounds good with your current way of playing, might not sound so good after you've progressed a bit as a student. Conversely, a flute that's difficult for you to play or that doesn't sound so good with your current way of playing might sound wonderful after you've gotten used to it or afer you've progressed a bit in your ability. That's why I think it's best to listen to your teacher or a known master play the flute, and to get his or her opinion. Unless you want to be a constant shakuhachi trader, base your decision on the potential of the flute, not what you can do with it yourself right now.

I've liked a lot of Bonchiku flutes.

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#5 2006-10-10 00:17:02

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

Yes, I agree - and I hope my statement did not suggest otherwise.  The flute that sounds perfect today may not be so great a couple of years from now.

And a teacher's advice is of tremendous importance... but, in the end, you still have to take the flute out for a test run to know how it feels for you...

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#6 2006-10-10 06:50:12

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

David Sawyer, who is on this forum, is the dealer for Bonchiku in the States. Perhaps you should contact him, tell him your budget, and have him send you the best Bonchiku he has for the price. I've played Bonchiku flutes and they are very easy to play and good for beginners.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#7 2006-10-10 11:28:35

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

David Sawyer's website is JapanShakuhachi:

     http://www.japanshakuhachi.com/bonchikushak.html (this page features knew shakuhachi; he also sells 'pre-owned' flutes...)

He can be reached at:

    Email: david@japanshakuhachi.com

    Phone: 303.666.5581

He also has shakuhachi, new and used, by other makers--also worth a look.

David is very easy to deal with, and has a very generous audition policy.


Also, Peter Hill occasionally has used Bonchiku 1.8s for sale (although it appears he has none at the moment), and it's worth your while checking in with him at Reibo.org:

    http://reibo.org/shakuhachi4sale.html

    Email: peterh29 <at> yahoo <dot> com
    Phone: 206.276.4802

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#8 2006-10-11 08:56:30

Safiya
Member
From: Paris
Registered: 2006-01-20
Posts: 25

Re: Advice: 1.8 Bonchiku for solid beginner

Thank you all for your generous implication around my little dilemma. It might helps other beginners too for finding their first pro level instrument.
Yes, as Seth mentionned, welcome to the club.
I definetly agree in that a skilled player playing the flute for you is the other ingredient , beside you playing the flute yourself, to check if that flute fits your need, expectations and taste. When my teacher played my Yuu, David Brown and Chikusing, they all sound greater, and more important, as I grow with them, easyness of playing comes as well, that makes them more precious to play.
By the way, I'm not touched by all the skilled players. Some really do, other don't. So interpretation is another point.
Someone else stated in another post that you cannot forsee in wich direction you will proceed, and where will you be at in one year and what your taste will be. That is nice, but to consider keeping long interest into an instrument is not for sure.
I just feel to mention that I asked here few month ago what about playing in concert situation after just a few months of experience. The beginners where encouraging me and the long run players said rather, you need to play at least two years before - which is not wrong technically, beside everyone progress quite differently. I allready did play twice, simple events for elderly people, during a pianist recital. People were touched and came to me to express it. Of course, not all the notes went perfect, but somehow something went through. And from that experience, I know on what I need to work to play in front of a more demanding audience.
To agree with Tairaku and edosan, I received great help, outside this forum, from Perry Yung and from David Sawyer, but if I came with that post here, is that I cannot listen them play live and get hand on their instruments, and difficult to get audition outside of US, but was precious to get some evaluation from them of some instruments, as well from my teacher who listen mp3 sent by them. I thank them a lot for that.
To live in the States or Japan is a better situation concerning this issue. Other parts of the world is like a big desert concerning seing and trying out real shakuhachi.
With the instruments I bought without playing them first, in fact coming from members of this forum -3 of them so far and rather modest ones financially, I was delighted with their new array of possibilities, but when paying 6 time their price for a more pro model, it is more chalenging.
Shakuhachi for me is discovery of new territories, making resonating and giving voice to something inside. The flute is merely a natural amplifier, giving it's color.
Cheers


Through conscious beings, the universe has generated self awareness

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