Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#76 2006-12-15 13:08:03

de_Genova
Member
From: Rome
Registered: 2006-12-11
Posts: 29

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Yea..........I just wanted to add an afterthought to that original post I made a few days ago. I was really impressed with the things I had been reading here and thought that you might want to share a coupl'a quotes that I thought were germain <-- (thats a girls name huh?) germane ??? (boy I really do need that spellchecker don't I) to the discussion: Thanks for listening PD

John Coltrane: …….All a musician can do is to get closer to the sources of nature, and so feel that he is in communion with the natural laws.

Watazumi Doso Roshi:…….“It' s fine that you are all deep into music. But there's something deeper and if you would go deeper, if you go to the source of where the music is being made and you' ll find something even more interesting. At the source and everyone's individual [ness] music is made. If you ask what the deep place is, it's your own life and it's knowing your own life and that own way that you live.”
And again……..“When you hear some music or hear some sound and if for some reason you like it very well; the reason is that sound is in balance or in harmony with your pulse. And so making a sound, you try to make various different sounds that imitate various different sounds of the universe, but what you are finally making is your own sound and the sound of yourself.”

Last edited by de_Genova (2006-12-16 10:00:44)


Don't take any wooden nickles!

Offline

 

#77 2007-01-26 08:46:46

Jordan
Member
From: Vancouver
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Blowing Ro is so much simpler
One note
Nothing to explain.
Tairaku NOW I see!
Sorry it took so long.

Last edited by Jordan (2007-01-26 10:27:15)


Be Well and Happy!
Gassho!

Jordan

Offline

 

#78 2007-02-02 03:54:48

Ryuzen
Dokyoku (Daishihan); Zensabo
From: Maderia Park, BC, Canada
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 104
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

I like that "everything is zen and everything is not zen". You decide for yourself what shakuhachi is and you live it to the best of your ability. Blowing from the heart is the most basic thing. I am so grateful that there is shakuhachi in the world that gives us so much joy, beauty, and pleasure. Every lesson with the students is a blessing. Every lesson with the teacher is a blessing. Every bamboo I hold is a blessing. Every time I blow and make a sound is a blessing, an incredible miracle, every day. What a precious thing it is to just blow and play shakuhach!

Alcvin
www.bamboo-in.com


I live a shakuhachi life.

Offline

 

#79 2007-02-22 00:19:46

KODOAN.COM
Member
From: NORTH BEND, OREGON
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Well, after reading ALL of the posts, I just had to add my two zents (groan..).

My Roshi (http://www.boundlessmindzen.org/) would occasionally say, “Zen is Mahayana Buddhism with Chinese jokes.”

He also gave his version of “what is zen”.

He said:

A long time ago, in a land far away called Conjeeveram, there lived an Indian man named Bodhitara.  He was the third son of King Suganda and belonged to the Kshatrya warrior/nobility caste.

Bodhitara had a well respected teacher of Buddhism named Prajnatara (who was responsible for changing Bodhitara’s name to Bodhidharma) who gave instructions to travel to China and help them in their practice.

Bodhidharma landed in Guanzhou and was invited to speak with Emperor Wu of Liang because of his status/high birth/famous teacher.

Now, the Emperor was a devout Buddhist and said to Bodhidharma, “I have built golden temples to the Buddha, sponsored many monestaries and monks, and have had the scriptures written many times – what will be my rewards in my next life?”

Bodhidharma answered, “nothing!”

The Emperor (more than a little pissed) said, “Then what is the meaning of Buddhism?”

Bodhidharma answered, “Nothing sacred, a special transmission outside of scripture, a finger pointing at the moon.”  (Perhaps the first koan?)

(This is generally regarded as the definition of Zen and what sets it apart from everything else.  Bodhidharma says that the meaning of his Buddhism, Zen, is NOT the four noble truths, the eightfold path, etc.  It is a special transmission completely outside of scripture.) 

Back to the story:

The Emperor (pretty darn pissed now) said, “Who stands before the Emperor of Liang and says such things?!?”

Bodhidharma answered, “I don’t know” and walked out of the palace.

The original Buddha practiced seated meditation to reach enlightenment.  It was called Dhyana in India but when Bodhidharma taught the Chinese, they called it Ch’an.  When Eisai Zenji (Myoan Eisai) brought back Ch’an (also tea seeds!), the Japanese called it Zen. 

Zen translates into seated meditation.  Zazen means sitting down in seated meditation.

Why did the original Buddha practice seated meditation?  Perhaps to attain enlightenment.

Why did Bodhidharma practice seated meditation?  Perhaps to attain enlightenment.


Personally, I have been practicing seated meditation since 1976 in order to answer life’s questions.  (I became lay ordained in 1999 just for kicks)

I have been (practicing) Shakuhachi crafting and what is generally accepted as Suizen since 1986 in order to help hear the answers.

As “unsacred fingers pointing to the moon”, my practice meets Bodhidharma’s definition of Zen.

Offline

 

#80 2007-02-22 03:06:13

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

'just for kicks' huh ?

Now there was this guy named Bodhicitta............


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#81 2007-02-22 05:17:45

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Kodoan,

Thanks for your refreshingly honest post on the subject(s). The Buddha's core teaching is, of course, beyond (beyond, beyond...) any of our preferred and protected loose terms, 'buddha clubs' and sects or other 'religious' garb.

I think that shakuhachi can be excellent Buddhist and/or Zen practice, but as another great teacher said about, well, everything: "Not always so"... It can be other things to other sensibilities that are just as relevant in their own right.

Regards,

Harry.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

Offline

 

#82 2007-02-23 23:31:43

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Harry,

You've come a long way from Rinzai Roku. Good for you!!smile

Kerry


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

Offline

 

#83 2007-02-24 12:56:17

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Kerry, I never subscribed to them... but I suppose there's worse ways to miss The Point.

Regards,

Harry.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

Offline

 

#84 2007-02-24 19:19:22

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Cool, Harry. Namaste....smile


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

Offline

 

#85 2007-05-02 11:02:51

shinkage ryu
Member
From: Virginia
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 19

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

No man on this earth can ever understand a certain truth the way someone else understands it.  As human beings, we are unified, yet seperate in the sense that we may all walk the path that we choose.  From the perceptions of others, your actions may not be zen, but for one to say this to another man is almost a contradiction in its self.  If zen is to become nothing, how could one describe what is nothingness and what is not?


“What sort of person are you, really, inside and what lies concealed there?”—the shakuhachi will undoubtedly supply the answer"
       
              (taken from: "Take No Kokoro" by by Kurahashi Yodo Sensei)

Offline

 

#86 2007-05-02 14:02:09

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

shinkage ryu wrote:

No man on this earth can ever understand a certain truth the way someone else understands it.  As human beings, we are unified, yet seperate in the sense that we may all walk the path that we choose.  From the perceptions of others, your actions may not be zen, but for one to say this to another man is almost a contradiction in its self.  If zen is to become nothing, how could one describe what is nothingness and what is not?

That's a really nice comment! Peace and tolerance towards your fellow man's views!

I guess the issue here is that we are all struggling to understand things that cannot be understood in a conventional manner; for this we all choose a path to try to reach some kind of "enlightment" (however you want to define that!), but we have the problem that we can never be sure of the path we've choosen, hence we live with fear of mistake, of contradiction, of the uncertainty that an opposing view brings us.

Well, just a thought

Salud para todos!

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

Offline

 

#87 2007-05-02 14:41:07

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Alex wrote:

for this we all choose a path to try to reach some kind of "enlightment" (however you want to define that!), but we have the problem that we can never be sure of the path we've choosen, hence we live with fear of mistake, of contradiction, of the uncertainty that an opposing view brings us.

So true.  It's a struggle (and one not to be beat in a forum with words, either!)...  but while I'm here, my thoughts...

Re/ certainty or being sure of a path...  it's another illusion that needs to fall away and not be given any significance.  It's a synthetic, intellectual concept, born from a dualistic model of the universe.  My opinion is if I remain open and mindful, whatever path I end up walking is then clearly my path and any judgments or descriptions of that path are pale or irrelevant. 

Now, in no way am I able to actually do this!  But it seems to me that there isn't even room for the struggle of constant judgment and decision making when we toss out the models in our head that I'm a separate entity from my loved ones or from the kids that sleep in my alley or from my teacher or from my co-workers.  Or that sounds I make with the flute sound aren't "correct" yet...

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

Offline

 

#88 2007-05-02 14:44:50

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

My view regarding 'nothingness' or 'emptiness' is when one is clear of preconception, presumption, and no longer subject to culture or conditioned mind. When this 'emptiness' has arisen, all is possible.
But we may have proclivities that have not been cleared  because they have not yet been triggered. And this is where I feel a teaching can help to release and purify these subjections.

Kel. §


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#89 2007-05-03 00:12:41

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Shakuhachi "not Zen"?

Well I guess this thread as somehow reached its end here. I saw that all in all there was 87 posts some of which gave pretty good insight as what shakuhachi is and is not. Now I feel that going around like this is not very productive and quite a waste of time and bandwidth. As moderator of this forum I will try not to be draconian in applying measures or closing threads but I feel that we should try to raise the level of quality of the topics discussed here. Now that being said I don’t mean that all the threads need to bee at a very deep level reserved to only some who have studied Buddhism or that we cannot ask simple questions or joke around. This part of the forum is about discussions on Zen and Buddhism itself. But when I see that a thread is losing its breath because questions that are too fundamental like this one are being asked and that it goes on and on like a endless string of random thinking I don’t feel that this is being productive and helping the purpose of the Zen forum.

My suggestion would be for all of us to try to be more careful in Keeping with the topic of each thread and when we feel that the thread as reached a silent point because we do not know what to say anymore just let it be.

Also we should try to be more careful of the questions we ask. Lets try not to open useless cans of worms.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google