Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

matthew · 2007-01-06 02:39:20

I’m working on a monster of a wide bore flute right now (something like 40mm) and I am wondering about the breath return/ikigaeshi and the actual open hole in the blowing end of the flute. Since I am either grafting a piece of bamboo on or using glue and bamboo dust, I have complete control over the size and placement of the opening in this situation.

Is there a standard size to shoot for? Does this size change in relationship to the bore diameter? Is there a point of no return where the opening is just too big to be playable? Right now I have the opening at about 20mm and the flute is playable, but is it ideal or would it be better to go bigger? I have spent the last few days opening it slowly and playing the flute and trying to note changes, but I'm not yet sure of the relationship.

Let me know what you think.

Until Later,
Matthew

dstone · 2007-01-06 04:03:17

Hi Matthew. Sounds like you have a great flute in the works! I don't know much about standards or all the acoustic implications, but I do know you should think about comfort, air seal (especially towards the back of the top opening on something that large) and your own lips and chin.

I have made several flutes with 25 mm+ top openings. No problem. These flutes have bores of 34 mm or less. Lengths from 2.4 to 3.2.

So I think you should keep sanding but save the dust just in case. It's quite easy to close the top opening up if you go too far and hardened dust & glue can be polished to a neat, comfortable surface. Don't try to build up too much material all at once -- if you're building a replacement "wall", stack it up gradually.

Brian had good photos around here of the top opening of an insanely wide flute I think he and/or Ken made -- worth looking at. Good luck and let us know the results!

-Darren.

Mujitsu · 2007-01-06 13:56:00

matthew wrote:
Is there a standard size to shoot for? Does this size change in relationship to the bore diameter? Is there a point of no return where the opening is just too big to be playable? Right now I have the opening at about 20mm and the flute is playable, but is it ideal or would it be better to go bigger? I have spent the last few days opening it slowly and playing the flute and trying to note changes, but I'm not yet sure of the relationship.

Hi Matthew,

There are many variables at work so it's difficult to suggest an exact measurement. It also depends on what sound you prefer. I've found that a 20 mm opening on a wide bore flute often makes it relatively easy to play but reduces the power/volume potential of the tone. I'm usually happiest with an opening of about 25 mm or more. However, those are just my tastes relative to bore diameter, hole size and bottom end diameter that I am comfortable with.

I think Darren makes a good point. I imagine the best way to figure it out is to grind too far, then add material back later. It's obvious when you've gone too far. That way, you'll have an idea of the relationships happening based on your own tastes.

Good luck!

Ken

Yungflutes · 2007-01-07 15:39:07

Hi Mathew, Making wide bore shakuhachi is a wonderful experience, especially when one turns out well. The fact that you have access to a grove makes us all quite envious! This means you can explore to your hearts content, like a painter with access to endless white canvases (or other things to paint on).

Great suggestions from Darren and Ken. After making a certain amount of flutes, you will become familiar with where you need to stop before you've gone over bored (ouch). A good way to help you with informed decision making is to study with a player who plays the kind of flutes you aspire to make. Using the music as a point of reference always helps me.

Here's a photo of what I do on a shakuhachi if it needs an Ikigaeshi. This Hocchiku is a just over 1 1/2" in diameter:

I insert a piece of bamboo cut-off inlay.

As an experiment, you can make a few flutes with different bore diameters but with the same length and openning specs at the top. Let us know what you discover!

Namaste, Perry

Last edited by Yungflutes (2007-01-07 21:28:27)

matthew · 2007-01-08 07:13:45

Hey All,
Thanks for sharing. I can see the value in experimenting and I can now see the value in failing or pushing something too far and having to re-work it (I’ve done it several times with the breath return now). I guess what I would have thought of as a set back is really a learning experience. I am on flute attempt number four, the first three literally got whittled away to nothing through the process of learning.

As far as having access to bamboo goes, I am blessed at the moment. Since I’m from Wisconsin, it’s a thrill just to see bamboo growing in the wild. If any of you happen to visit the Okayama area we can go out crawling around the mountainsides together…I’ll even treat you to Mister Donuts. I happened to get permission to enter a grove at the first place I asked. However as Spiderman taught me, “with great power comes great responsibility”. That’s why I have been using dead stuff to experiment with…I can’t take the thought of mauling a primo piece of stock!

Any who, I’ll keep at it and let you know how it develops. I’ll try to get a photo or two up in the next few days so you can see what I’m up to. Basically all the knowledge I have regarding making shakuhachi has come from this forum…I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it!

Thanks again,
Matt

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2007-01-06 02:39:20

wide bore flutes and ikigaeshi

#2 2007-01-06 04:03:17

Re: wide bore flutes and ikigaeshi

#3 2007-01-06 13:56:00

Re: wide bore flutes and ikigaeshi

matthew wrote:

#4 2007-01-07 15:39:07

Re: wide bore flutes and ikigaeshi

#5 2007-01-08 07:13:45

Re: wide bore flutes and ikigaeshi

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