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i have some questions about the bigger bored flutes.i mean near root ends or rootends/in other words tapered/. apart from the diagrams is there any reliable method of choosing the proper pitch cause it happend to me two times that i make the same mistake.i make a shakuhachi and its almost ok but the otsu ro is lower than should be and the shakuhachi is not very loud so i widen,widen and at the end i finish the shakuhachi one pitch higher than i thought it should be. and the holes were there already so one ended with big holes and the other in the fire.and what about the choke point?
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I have had the same experience! Don't worry-it's all part of the leaning curve.... Keep records of measurements of all your successes and failures: root/utaguchi diameter, length, circumference of bamboo at different points, nodal points, etc. This data will be become more useful as you collect more. Monty and tom Deaver have information on their sites about typical lengths/pitch (they do differ slightly). Also look at Zink's article about the 2.2 shakuhachi. There are detailed measurements and graphs of bore profiles on the shaku8 site. The choke point recommended by some is 84.4%. Also check out Neptune's and Mujitsu articles on tuning on their sites. gambare!
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Where are you measuring from, the top of the flute, the dip in the blow edge, the top of the hole, the middle of the hole ?
All of these variations will make a very noticable difference.
Consider that the further the hole is from the blow edge, the lower the note will be, so your otsu Ro is either too far away and you could drill a 10mm hole in the rear of the bamboo to correct this, or all of the other holes are too close to the blow edge because of your measuring points of reference.
Kel.
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costademaria wrote:
i have some questions about the bigger bored flutes.i mean near root ends or rootends/in other words tapered/. apart from the diagrams is there any reliable method of choosing the proper pitch cause it happend to me two times that i make the same mistake.i make a shakuhachi and its almost ok but the otsu ro is lower than should be and the shakuhachi is not very loud so i widen,widen and at the end i finish the shakuhachi one pitch higher than i thought it should be. and the holes were there already so one ended with big holes and the other in the fire.and what about the choke point?
Boyan,
A few things come to mind. These may be obvious to you already or perhaps they can be of help.
A wide bore flute needs to be shorter to play the same pitch as a thinner bore flute. If you are basing your measurements on a thinner bore shakuhachi, that could be the reason the tonic is flat.
Another possibility is that as you drill each hole, the holes previously drilled become progressively flatter. (What happens is the bore is getting bigger and therefore flatter with each hole) So, if you start out with ro on pitch before drilling holes, it will be flatter after the holes are drilled. If you want the tonic to be exactly on pitch, it needs to be slightly sharp before drilling the holes.
I hope this helps.
Ken
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Most of the serious long flute makers just make the flute and don't worry about whether it's exactly on pitch. I would recommend that for beginning makers as well. To play honkyoku you don't have to be on a Western pitch, in fact the idea is kind of silly. Honkyoku developed well before the advent of A440.
Some makers, like John Neptune on occasion, simply charge a bit more for the ones that end up on a Western pitch.
Ciao,
BR
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tairaku, i totaly agree with you,i just try to make them on pitch cause when i focus to make them so i think i simplify the understanding proces. i try to make shakuhachi from some 5 months and the last week at the end i understood some important for me conclusions and some of them are:
-if a piece of bamboo doesnt feel like a shakuhachi it definetely would finish in the fire
-there is no point of wasting time on inferior pieces/straight bore/ cause whatever i do i am not satisfied from the result
-i read somewhere Ken said that he doesnt put even oil. after finishing some shakuhachi with 3 times polymerised tung and after that 3 layers of the best epoxy i found with the respective drying times and polishing i achieved a totally waterproof good sounding tough shakuhachi with a very tough unbelieveble satin silky finish. my conclusion from this-i will also not put more anything. simplicity is better. so when i learn to make them with closed eyes in pitch 440 i am sure i will not do them after that like this but simply go with the nature
by the way in my country/Bulgaria/ in the past the students of barrel making/ this big wooden things where you put your wine/ were accepted masters when they did one with closed eyes and after that entered inside,the barrel was closed and thrown from a high place in a deep river...just to check the leaks:-)
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Tairaku wrote:
To play honkyoku you don't have to be on a Western pitch, in fact the idea is kind of silly. Honkyoku developed well before the advent of A440.
costademaria wrote:
simply go with the nature
Exactly! In my opinion, this illustrates the fundamental difference between jinashi and jiari shakuhachi making. The maker has more control in jiari shakuhachi making. Therefore, it makes sense to strive for exact tonic tuning. The jinashi maker is simply a midwife. We take the path of least resistance and let the plant tell us what it needs to be.
KL
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hey Costa,
do you make kavall? the bullgarian flute..
G
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hi, i made one from plastic before and it was quite good. but as an instrument for me too many holes though and difficult to hold sometimes cause for some notes its like you almost not hold it. i see here that i have some very suitable sized bamboo and will go to make one now. i like the sound and i am bread with this type of music in my country/tv,radio,concerts.../. sometimes i even think my shakuhachi sounds a bit like kaval.
though i like the shakuhachi for the meditative aspect and the Kaval is more fast playing. before some years i hacve been to concert of Teodosi Spasov/the best bulgarian player/ and it was incredible.
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Teodosi is an inspiration, for sure. My girlfriend is Bulgarian and she introduced me to the Kaval and Teodosi. I saw him in concert in Montreal a cople of times last summer and it was truly incredible the sounds he was able to create. I do find it a little high pitch and frantic though, and prefer the more smoothe sounds of the shakuhachi.
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