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#1 2007-04-29 17:04:40

Lorka
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Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Zazen and Suizen

Hello all,

Let me begin by saying that I am not a Buhdisst, though I have a strong affinity and attraction toward Zen Buhdissim and am curious to learn more.  I was reading one of the Zen books that had been hiding in silence on my bookshelf and it mentioned a breathing exercise for Zazen meditation called 'Bamboo Breathing'.  It was then that the old brain starting to get curious, and I was wondering if such a breathing technique was applicable (or was already used) in the practice of Suizen.  Any helpful hinters would be welcomed. 

The book also mentioned something called the 'Tanden' which is the source of 'spiritual energy'.  Something located below the navel which is exercised through abdominal breathing.  Is this same area developed through shakuhachi playing in the Suizen mode?  I guess more generally I am wondering if Suizen is simply Zazen with a Shakuhachi, employing this 'Bamboo Breathing' technique. 

I am interested in learning Zazen for a number of reasons, and for an equal number of reasons I have put it off for years, I am wondering now, however, about trying to practice Zazen meditation and Suizen.  I would like to learn both.  Most Zen Centre places I imagine would not be able to help with the Suizen side of things (unless, as I suggested, Suizen is just Zazen with a flute).  It seems like both types of meditation would compliment each other very well and skill in one would transfer into the other.  If anyone has any info or comments about any of the things discussed I would love to hear it.  I would also love to hear in general about Suizen, as a formal instrumental meditation practice.  thanks.

Matt


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#2 2007-04-29 21:17:45

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Lorka wrote:

The book also mentioned something called the 'Tanden' which is the source of 'spiritual energy'.  Something located below the navel which is exercised through abdominal breathing.

Also "dantian", a couple of inches below and behind the navel, in TCM and Chinese martial arts.  The center that all movement properly originates from.  Whether visualization exercise or physical reality, dantian is a focal point of most Taoist and Buddhist qigong.

Lorka wrote:

Is this same area developed through shakuhachi playing in the Suizen mode?

I don't know that it's appropriate to think of suizen as developing any area of the body, per se.  (Well, no more than zazen is likely to improve posture or walking Zen to improve fitness, etc.)...   Another thought...  energy work usually requires actively visualizing and/or circulating energy to various places with intention.  Intention may not leave room for the "no mind" required of Zen.  But if the energy naturally accumulates in dantian during suizen and you simply notice it, well, so be it!

Several dedicated Zen people have left their thoughts here on suizen versus zazen and if suizen is really Zen at all...  search for "zazen" in this sub-forum.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#3 2007-04-30 00:42:41

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Yep as Darren pointed out the tanden is one of the most important focal points of vital energy in Chinese medicine and martial arts. The same can be said for Korea and Japan since both of their cultures have been based on the Chinese model when it comes to medicine etc…

Now as far as the whole (is Suizen Zen?) First we have to somehow open a can of worms and ask what is Suizen? My opinion on this is very simple and not the final one since there is so many ways to see this. For me Suizen=playing Shakuhachi instead of doing Zazen. What is Zazen?? Sitting and doing nothing trying to reach a state of emptiness and one with all etc... Then Suizen would be the same type of a deal while playing a flute.

Is doing Zazen essential in order to get in on the Suizen wagon? I feel that not really since It can help you relax but it is not really required. What I feel would be more beneficial than doing zazen in your case would be to read books on Zen like the saying of the old Chinese masters since this might give you a better taste and feel of emptiness in general without getting on the whole sutra reading path. So I would suggest the following book to read which is poetry written by old Chinese Zen monks from mostly the Tang dynasty. Those poems should give you a feeling of what Zen and Suizen are about without become a Buddhist or doing any hard core sitting and sutra reading.

Here is a book I really like when it comes to poetry linked with Zen.

The collected songs of Cold Mountain (Hanshan)
Translated by Red Pine
•    Paperback: 272 pages
•    Publisher: Copper Canyon Press; Rev Exp edition (October 2000)
•    Language: English
•    ISBN-10: 1556591403
•    ISBN-13: 978-1556591402


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#4 2007-04-30 02:13:39

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Gishin wrote:

The collected songs of Cold Mountain (Hanshan)
Translated by Red Pine

"Zen Works of Stonehouse" also translated by Red Pine is another great book.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#5 2007-04-30 08:42:05

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Tairaku wrote:

Gishin wrote:

The collected songs of Cold Mountain (Hanshan)
Translated by Red Pine

"Zen Works of Stonehouse" also translated by Red Pine is another great book.

Yes, Red Pine (Bill Porter) is a wonderful translator. I just did a gig with him where he read some of his translations in between shakuhachi pieces. It worked beautifully. When he reads, he actually sings each original Chinese poem and then reads his translation.

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#6 2007-04-30 16:43:15

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

nyokai wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Gishin wrote:

The collected songs of Cold Mountain (Hanshan)
Translated by Red Pine

"Zen Works of Stonehouse" also translated by Red Pine is another great book.

Yes, Red Pine (Bill Porter) is a wonderful translator. I just did a gig with him where he read some of his translations in between shakuhachi pieces. It worked beautifully. When he reads, he actually sings each original Chinese poem and then reads his translation.

Yes, his Stonehouse (Shih-wu) book is fantastic.  I think there are excerpts online somewhere.

I don't know if these are Bill Porter's own words or something he translated, but this phrase stuck with me when I read it some time ago...   "Out of touch with the times but not the seasons."  I think that's a beautiful way to describe the relevance of what he writes about.  And, really, it applies to anything true or clear at all.  Honkyoku, haiku, whatever.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#7 2007-04-30 18:18:40

Lorka
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Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Zazen and Suizen

Thanks Dstone and others.  I actually specialized in poetry and poetics in my undergrad degree and am quite familar with a number of the tropes and devices typical of Zen and Taoist poetry.  I have been reading this kind of poetry for the past 13 years and love to return to it, always getting something fresh and new from minimalist compostions.  I will check out the translations mentioned some time soon though.  Thanks for the info about Suizen.  Did anyone run across this Bamboo Breathing technique?  Also any more info about developing the tanden (or the chinese version that Dstone mentioned) through shakuhachi meditation would be welcomed.  Perry is in the process of crafting me a 2.7 widebore Hocchiku and I hope to be able to derive a great deal of pleasure, insight, and perhaps even internal/spiritual practice from it.  I am very excited about getting the new flute.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#8 2007-04-30 20:25:21

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Lorka wrote:

Did anyone run across this Bamboo Breathing technique?  Also any more info about developing the tanden (or the chinese version that Dstone mentioned) through shakuhachi meditation would be welcomed.  Perry is in the process of crafting me a 2.7 widebore Hocchiku and I hope to be able to derive a great deal of pleasure, insight, and perhaps even internal/spiritual practice from it.  I am very excited about getting the new flute.

What is Bamboo Breathing? Do you mean sasabuki?

Congratulations on the new flute. If you just play a lot it will turn into a spiritual practice without having to think about it. Just blow.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#9 2007-04-30 21:41:12

Lorka
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Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Zazen and Suizen

Hi Tairaku,

Bamboo Breathing is a method of Zazen that is discussed in the book "Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy / by Katsuki Sekida" From what I have read it seems to be  essentially a kind of breathing exercise in which you exhale in a steady stream, and then exhale with 'stops', creating a kind of intermittent exhalation.  The out breath is almost forcibly stopped several times during a single exhalation.  The book likens these stops/intervals in the breath to the nodes in the bamboo.  I'm not sure if that helps at all.  It is not that same as sasabuki, though you could do sasabuki with it I suppose.  The book talks quite a bit about extending the duration and depth of the out breath, which seems like a useful tool when combined with the shakuhachi.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#10 2007-05-01 05:22:27

Hans van Loon
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From: Steenbergen, The Netherlands
Registered: 2005-10-16
Posts: 16
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Hi Lorka,

I have the book of Sekida too
the bamboo breathing technique is indeed a nice breathing method, but there are lots of zen-masters who don't agree with sekida's principles per se
just following the breat without doing anything is as good as well

gassho

Hans


Kyotaku, the ZEN flute with the warm and serene sound

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#11 2007-05-03 08:25:47

Josh
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From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Maybe we are talking about Komibuki? It's a typical technique of the Kinpu Ryu/Nezasa Ryu in northern Japan.  Sagariha is a good example of this technique. I've heard it was developed/stylized because in northern Japan it's colder and you naturally hear the pulsating breath more in your longer tones.  Wadatsumi Do said that it takes more concentration than reagular straight tones to play if you use Komibuki, hence you can hear him often using it. Yokoyama sensei also apparently went through a "boom" in using this technique in various songs in performances and CDs, although he usually taught the basic way to play it to his students.   Although maybe we are not talking about komibuki wink

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#12 2007-05-03 22:11:47

KODOAN.COM
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From: NORTH BEND, OREGON
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 24
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Your bamboo breathing reminds me of a Ki exercise where you exhale completely then try to exhale even more with a sort of "pushing out" feeling.  The idea is to completely empty the lungs of stale air.  There is both an inhale and exhale version of this breathing exercise.  The exhale is learned and practiced first to remove toxins and the inhale is used to create a "storehouse" of Ki (vital life force) to be used later.

Careful if you practice these!  I've had more than a few friends literally pass out and fall over from practicing only half a dozen breaths.  Start in Seiza, not standing up.

Tanden (the heavenly gate) is sometimes confused with Hara (the guts).  Hara is for physical power and balance.  Tanden is for intuition/"psychic" type abilities and long life. 

These and other similar techniques are widely practiced in the Orient.

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#13 2007-05-04 14:25:59

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Riley Lee has an excellent dvd which is on the surface disguised as a kind of "New Age" video, but in fact has some incredibly powerful breathing exercises which originated in esoteric yogic/tantric traditions of India, China, Japan and other parts of Asia. (I've been aware of pranayama/yogic/taoist/chi-gong breathing teachings for 30-plus years and have never encountered some of the exercises which Riley teaches on this video.)

Breathe! - DVD CODE: BRH
http://www.rileylee.net/cd_catalogue_a2m.html

Speaking of disguises, the video was made before Riley shaved his head and mustache -- when he was posing as a plain, ordinary, everyday, wandering shakuhachi master teacher. His new look is more revealing of his ancient true nature ...


http://www.chrismoran.com/images/Kaidan_Lee.jpg
(Riley in costume in KAIDAN, A GHOST STORY, Photo by Rudi van Starrex)

Last edited by Chris Moran (2007-05-04 14:40:04)


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#14 2007-05-04 16:39:16

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

I'm far from an expert on breathing, but after spending a good 5 years or so taking yoga lessons I got involved with a bunch of people who liked/sold/particpated in rebirthing. There was a lot of psychology stuff that went along with it, and was kind of cultish, but the core was essentially a breathing "technique". In fact, I'd be more inclined to call it a lack of technique because what it entailed was simply unforced and unrestricted deep breathing and what most people would call hyperventilating. One of the things that differentiated it from most of the yogic breathing techniques is that there is no holding, forcing, counting or making sounds. It might be part of a particular technique, but if you're making any kind of noises breathing, you're restricting your breath. And, of course, if your holding or counting to time inhales or exhales you're also restricting your breath. Some of the yogic breathing techniques involve forcing the breath in or out real fast. One thing I found interesting about rebirthing was how resistant people were to simply take unforced, unrestricted deep breaths, even just a few. However, in almost every yoga class I took, people were more than willing to hold, control and make noises while breathing. 

Like I said, some would call rebirthing hyperventilating, and I guess it is, but you can get better at it. Generally, the first bunch of times after getting past making noises or trying to force any kind breath, you end up falling asleep after a relatively short time breathing. The person watching you, they call that person a rebirther, will keep reminding you to breath. You might wake up and take a few more breaths, or you might chose to ignore the reminders and just sleep. With practice, you end up staying awake and continuing to breath. This is where it seems more like hyperventilation. You're hands and feet cramp up a bit, and you usually end up stopping because either you've had enough and you consciously decide to breath more shallow, or instead of falling asleep, it's more like passing out. Either way, you can start breathing deep again before the session is over. You might fall asleep again, but when I was doing it,  if I didn't fall asleep I was able to continue breathing deep without the cramping, and it became almost psychedelic. They say that with practice you can continue breathing deep for very long periods of time and move through several energy levels or something like that. I wouldn't suggest to anyone to try going to this kind of extreme even with supervision of a rebirther because at this point in my life I'm a bit more skeptical of how healthy it is, but I'd strongly suggest to anyone who plays any kind of flute to try taking just 3 to 5 deep natural breaths, no whooshing sounds, no forcing, no holding, no timing the inhales or exhales, just nice, easy, deep breaths before playing and occasionally during practice. You don't really need to do all sorts of things that will make those around you wonder what you're doing and it makes a world of difference.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#15 2007-05-04 17:09:59

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Chris Moran wrote:

Riley Lee has an excellent dvd which is on the surface disguised as a kind of "New Age" video, but in fact has some incredibly powerful breathing exercises which originated in esoteric yogic/tantric traditions of India, China, Japan and other parts of Asia. (I've been aware of pranayama/yogic/taoist/chi-gong breathing teachings for 30-plus years and have never encountered some of the exercises which Riley teaches on this video.)

This DVD sounds quite interesting. What I would like to know is from what tradition Did Riley lee get his Pranayana practices that seem to be in this DVD. The reason why I am interested is that in Shingon Buddhism the first riutals/training that people have to study is called the Shido Kegyo which are basically translated as the 4 stages of Prayoga. They include Mudra, Mantra, visualizations along with breahting etc.. based mainly in 4 rituals that from the core of what is the Shingon practice.

It would really be nice if Riley Lee could contribute to this part of the discussion since if he picked up his Pranayana practices from the Shingon or Tendai traditions in Japan it could shed some lights on the deeper relation of Shakuhachi with Mikkyo.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#16 2007-05-08 07:18:32

Harry
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From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Does anyone give breathing classes? I'll pay Big Money.

Regards,

Harry.

Last edited by Harry (2007-05-08 07:18:59)


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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#17 2007-05-08 12:04:59

mrosenlof
Member
From: Louisville Colorado USA
Registered: 2006-03-01
Posts: 82

Re: Zazen and Suizen

My silver flute teacher recommends Yoga for its breathing practice (among other things).  I believe the style she does is Vinyassa, but am not certain.

Google "Arnold Jacobs" and "breathing exercises" and you'll find some useful stuff, including http://www.windsongpress.com/jacobs/bre … ter%20.pdf

Jacobs was a tuba player.  There's a lot of air required for tuba.  They know something about breathing.


Mike Rosenlof

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#18 2007-05-08 12:36:35

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Honkyoku has allowed me to be relaxed (read: slow) with my replacement breaths at the ends of phrases.  Perhaps I should say that my sense of "ma" allows for lots of breathing time wink   Anyways, it's all good until along comes a metered piece...  practicing rapid replacement breaths after the least beat of the measure is important and there were some simple exercises in that PDF for me to try.  Thanks!

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#19 2007-05-08 15:49:10

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Harry wrote:

Does anyone give breathing classes? I'll pay Big Money. Regards, Harry.

The yoga teachers in Dublin can thank me later, but if you google pranayama dublin you'll come up with a lot of yoga teachers close to you. One of them should be able to give you instructions focused on your flute breath control needs. "Pranayama" is the name given to yogic breathing practices.

And -- I'm really not shilling for Riley--  have you seen his Breathe! dvd?

Last edited by Chris Moran (2007-05-08 15:52:01)


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#20 2007-05-09 08:07:25

amokrun
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From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Zazen and Suizen

dstone wrote:

Anyways, it's all good until along comes a metered piece...  practicing rapid replacement breaths after the least beat of the measure is important and there were some simple exercises in that PDF for me to try.

Heh, I've noticed the same thing. Playing honkyoku makes me breath almost the same way I always do but as soon as I try something where you can't really stop, it gets pretty hard to maintain a decent amount of breath. Worst cases are those where you end up having to take a breath in middle of some melody and you need to somehow do it without causing a clear delay there. One piece that I still can't get right is Kazoe Uta. I just can't seem to figure out the rhythm of the melody and I always end up running out of air even though technically I should be able to go through it just fine.

I suppose it's back to breathing practice. No way around it.

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#21 2007-06-11 21:56:14

Harazda
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Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 126

Re: Zazen and Suizen

One thing I'd like to point out regards a teaching by Watazumi at Woodstock's Creative Music Studio, before it was KTD Monastery.  In the teaching, which I think Ron Nelson placed online, Watazumi discusses pulse and breathing.  As a Doctor of Oriental Medicine myself, practicing old Classical Yijing style, I quickly ascertained that Watazumi was talking about the "four stages:" Taiyang, Shaoyang, Shaoyin, and Taiyin, during his discussion of four types of breathing.  This is something I've been keeping under my hat, only to reveal it now. 

In the Classical Medicine, the four stages directly relate to the Eight Ancestral Vessels and, as such, therefore relate to organ/meridian correspondences according to the Fu Xi and Wen Wang gua arrangements.  This means that playing the "jogu," or flute, as breathing tool, one can basically use the flute as medicine.  This is very profound, and I have to admit that I only have about half of what he said figured out.  Truth is, I just haven't sat down with it long enough with enough sensitivity to intuit the other half.  Taiyin and taiyang breathing seem pretty clear, but the shaoyin and shaoyang aren't so clear.  But, this I can pretty safely conclude:  the breath can be used to balance the energies of the Eight Ancestral Vessels.  I would also venture to say that one could then go on to work with the energies of all three dantians: the lower (previously mentioned), relating to Jing, the middle, related to Qi, and the upper, related to Shen.

Interesting, eh?

Last edited by Harazda (2007-06-11 21:59:38)

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#22 2007-06-11 23:16:51

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Harazda wrote:

One thing I'd like to point out regards a teaching by Watazumi at Woodstock's Creative Music Studio, before it was KTD Monastery.  In the teaching, which I think Ron Nelson placed online, Watazumi discusses pulse and breathing.  As a Doctor of Oriental Medicine myself, practicing old Classical Yijing style, I quickly ascertained that Watazumi was talking about the "four stages:" Taiyang, Shaoyang, Shaoyin, and Taiyin, during his discussion of four types of breathing.  This is something I've been keeping under my hat, only to reveal it now. 

In the Classical Medicine, the four stages directly relate to the Eight Ancestral Vessels and, as such, therefore relate to organ/meridian correspondences according to the Fu Xi and Wen Wang gua arrangements.  This means that playing the "jogu," or flute, as breathing tool, one can basically use the flute as medicine.  This is very profound, and I have to admit that I only have about half of what he said figured out.  Truth is, I just haven't sat down with it long enough with enough sensitivity to intuit the other half.  Taiyin and taiyang breathing seem pretty clear, but the shaoyin and shaoyang aren't so clear.  But, this I can pretty safely conclude:  the breath can be used to balance the energies of the Eight Ancestral Vessels.  I would also venture to say that one could then go on to work with the energies of all three dantians: the lower (previously mentioned), relating to Jing, the middle, related to Qi, and the upper, related to Shen.

Interesting, eh?

OK but do you think one must be conscious of the four ways of blowing to get there, or is it possible to get there simply by playing well? After all a turtle is a perfect example of zazen.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#23 2007-06-12 04:38:04

Harry
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From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Yeah, apparently I was a natural at learning to breath. Some big guy just slapped me a few times and it kicked in all on its own! :-)

Regards,

H.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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#24 2007-06-12 05:19:07

Harazda
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Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 126

Re: Zazen and Suizen

Hello Tairaku,

By "get there," I'll presume you refer to kensho or satori... the Zen breakthrough... Awakening.  Here, I think Watazumi was really talking about conscious working with the pulses in the interest of longevity, which is really a different issue.  His use of the jo staff was, I think, in league with his use of the hocchiku, which he referred to as a "tool of the breath." 

In the video entitled,"Sukyaki and Chips," Watazumi says that Zen was too confining in it's use of the breath, and so he gave it up. 

Watazumi's Zen awakening must have preceeded this interview by several decades; I think it's somewhat safe to say that he understood his Zen, as he also knew the "one sound."

Shunryu Suzuki said, "When you become you, Zen becomes Zen."  It seems to me that, for Watazumi, this meant discovering his own way through breathing.  When mountains and rivers once again became mountains and rivers, his task was to work within phenomena as relative truth, and this was centered upon an expanded use of the breath in order to enhance the human experience... rooted in satori.

In the Dharma, regardless of the tradition, we carry with us the seed of Buddhahood... Tathagatagarbha.  It is the precious gem that is waiting to be uncovered.  Each of us has our own proximity to the awareness of this innate nature, and we approach it with varying degrees of karmically-based inclination towards its unfoldment.  Watazumi had arrived according to his own inclination, as we all eventually do.  My own personal opinion is that if we understand the Sutras (and the Tantras) and work on permeating all phenomena with the sound of the flute as nondual with awareness (mind), then we are on the actual road to liberation from the cycle of births and deaths.  Once we gain a foothold on this realization, the evidence of our breakthrough can be found in our sensitivity to the needs of others, followed by the desire to help.  This help can be rendered through endless methods... one of which is further use of the flute in solidifying pristeen awareness of the innate nature.  At some point, this innate nature just permeates all that you do.  I think Watazumi's sense of the innate nature permeated all levels of breathing he utilized for purposes related to teaching others and nourishing vital forces (yang shen).

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#25 2007-06-12 05:52:05

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Zazen and Suizen

Harazda wrote:

Hello Tairaku,

By "get there," I'll presume you refer to kensho or satori... the Zen breakthrough... Awakening.  Here, I think Watazumi was really talking about conscious working with the pulses in the interest of longevity, which is really a different issue.  His use of the jo staff was, I think, in league with his use of the hocchiku, which he referred to as a "tool of the breath." 

In the video entitled,"Sukyaki and Chips," Watazumi says that Zen was too confining in it's use of the breath, and so he gave it up.

Actually I wasn't talking about satori. I was just talking about whether one must specifically practice this kind of breathing or if it's something that can be developed naturally. When I see various wind musicians play some have a focused breath and some don't. Some "primitive" musicians have fantastic breathing abilities and conversely some trained musicians are weak.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

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