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#1 2007-06-12 22:46:18

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Saws

Hi.  I know a good clean cut also relies on good technique but starting with the right tool, I have observations/questions...

I've had reasonably good results, I think, using three different saws so far, almost interchangeably:
1) inexpensive, made-in-Japan, good blade but maybe a bit coarse: details
2) even cheaper hobby "razor" saw, finer teeth: details ("A", not "B")
3) good old hacksaw, general purpose, fairly fine teeth

1) and 2) are pull-cutters and have a reasonably thin kerf.  The top cut (above the node, angled back slightly) is usually no problem.  I always stress out a bit about tearing things up when making the blowing edge cut though.  Starting it and continuing on that line...  Half way between with- and against-the-grain.  So maybe that's where my question lies.  Any advice?

I also usually apply masking tape to where I'm cutting.  Maybe that's an old woodworking habit that doesn't do much on bamboo, but it doesn't seem to hurt.

Thanks for any wisdom on sawing bamboo!  smile

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#2 2007-06-12 23:02:18

Kabato
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2007-02-26
Posts: 28

Re: Saws

I've had the same worries about making the utaguchi cut myself, trying to get it clean and at the right angle without messing up the skin directly below. I've seen people start where the bottom of the blowing edge will be and saw towards the node (I hope that makes sense, sort of hard to convey without a diagram), I find the only way for me to eyeball a close enough angle is to start on the node. I use the technique you described of starting out going against the grain and then change the angle of the saw so it goes with the grain at the bottom, reducing the likelyhood of skin damage. If you're interested in a really good, extremely fine-toothed saw, here's the one I use:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DC664CHRL._SS500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Silky-Folding-Pru … amp;sr=8-9

Strong, compact, reasonably priced and is still as sharp as the day I bought it after hundreds of cuts through thick madake roots. Of course a hand made japanese saw specifically designed for bamboo is probably better (the ones on mejiro come to mind), but this is a pretty good alternative. Hope some of this was helpful. smile


If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the wind of the buddha's house brings for the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river.

-Eihei Dogen, Genjokoan

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#3 2007-06-13 19:25:34

Leland
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2007-01-13
Posts: 14

Re: Saws

Darren,

I've switched to filing the utaguchi, it's a little slower, but the level of control is waayyyy higher. If you have a nice sharp file, it only takes a few minutes anyway. It may not be a popular view, but I don't think I'll switch back to cutting. I did buy some saws at Mejiro and they work better than anything else I've tried. I do have some extra tools to give away, I'll bring them with me to Al's this weekend. I have a nice saw you might like...

See you soon!

Leland

PS...One of guys helping John Neptune at his making workshop at Mejiro cut several people's utaguchis from the bottom up. That is a sure fire way to keep the skin from splitting, but it takes real practice to end up on the right part of the fushi.

Last edited by Leland (2007-06-13 19:25:53)

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#4 2007-06-13 22:12:03

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Saws

Leland wrote:

I've switched to filing the utaguchi, it's a little slower, but the level of control is waayyyy higher. If you have a nice sharp file, it only takes a few minutes anyway. It may not be a popular view, but I don't think I'll switch back to cutting.

Wow, I never would have even considered doing that, but sure, why not?!

Leland wrote:

PS...One of guys helping John Neptune at his making workshop at Mejiro cut several people's utaguchis from the bottom up. That is a sure fire way to keep the skin from splitting, but it takes real practice to end up on the right part of the fushi.

I cut back up from the bottom like that once on some cheap timber bamboo with a hacksaw and the cut was clean but I didn't end up with the exit/angle I wanted.  Maybe efficient middle ground is to make a shallower-than-desired, but clean, cut that way to remove most material and then take it down to the finished depth with files.

Should be a great time this weekend!  Weather forecast looks mixed but I've been there with light rain before and it wasn't a big deal with tent/tarps that Al will have.  See you then!

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#5 2007-06-14 07:25:25

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: Saws

I use a 6" combo disk/belt bench sander (using 120 grit on the disk and using only the disk) and get all the work out here (very clean, fast and accurate), then finish up with files (from mejiro). I abrade both utaguchi and chin angle. When it looks and plays right I finish sand to 600 (the last of it is done wet using Walnut oil).... For anyone wishing to try this remember I use the word "fast"; so, proceed slowly till you get the hang of it....

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#6 2007-06-14 15:51:15

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Saws

gmiller wrote:

I use a 6" combo disk/belt bench sander (using 120 grit on the disk and using only the disk) and get all the work out here (very clean, fast and accurate), then finish up with files (from mejiro). I abrade both utaguchi and chin angle. When it looks and plays right I finish sand to 600 (the last of it is done wet using Walnut oil)....

Cool, George.  Thanks.  I don't have space for that kind of setup, but good to know if a future situation permits a dedicated workshop.  (That must also kick up a fair amount of dust, eh?)  And the 120 grit across the grain is never a problem messing up bamboo skin?  Nothing the finer grit can't solve, I suppose.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#7 2007-06-14 18:02:01

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: Saws

Actually, the set up requires very little space. The Ryobi measures about 18" long x 12" wide x say, 12" high; hook up the shop vac = no dust....
Material substraction via abrasion does not cause grain tear out. I suppose you could use a finer grit, but at the cost of higher heat and endgrain discoloration. Best to remove material at lower temp (courser paper, like 120 )and finish up with finer cut files and ultimately very fine paper. Bamboo has a tight endgrain that finishes up nicely with finer paper and lubricant like Walnut oil......

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#8 2007-06-16 07:19:25

EricSwain
Member
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 21

Re: Saws

I use the same setup with the bench mounted sander. The belt is a small 2" wide one with a disk sander on the end thats about 6". It works great for getting a good initial cut on the mouthpiece and on the root end. I must warn you to be VERY carefull if you want to use it to sand off the smaller roots sticking out the side. They are very brittle and tend to break off when you use the belt sander on them.

As for a saw, I use a very fine toothed coping saw to cut the bamboo down to size as well as to cut the grooves for inlayed bindings. I've never had a problem with splintering and as long as I use blue painters tape I get nice clean lines. The tape is to keep me from marring the skin when I skip out of the groove I'm cutting.


Eric

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