Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

TaipeiShak wrote:

I know that traditionally "ji" is used for this but I was wondering if anyone can recommend any other commonly available material that can be used as an alternative.....  Thank you!!

Welcome to the forum Taipei. Sometimes you can adjust the bore through subtraction only. If that is not possible, here are a few ji paste substitutes.

- Bamboo dust and glue
-Two-part epoxy (automobile bondo, etc.)
-"Fix All" household plaster
- Newspaper soaked in glue

Hope this helps.

Ken

John Neptune tunes his jinashi flutes with blobs of two-part epoxy placed via the end of a long stick.

Of course, he's had lots of experience doing this, and he's a great player, so he can use the wet-newspaper technique to
determine what needs to be added where.

He then usually applies a black finish to the inside of his flutes. Some of the ones I've seen look like a gnarly cave inside.

Sure to sound great though.

eB

Yep, Neptune is a shakuhachi making genius. He can make perfectly tuned flutes with just a few dabs of ji here and there. He also knows how to fix problems on other flutes by putting little pieces of electrical tape inside the bore. One of John Singer's best sounding flutes has a little piece of tape inside it that Neptune put in a strategic location. Amazing. Stabilized the ro.

Yeah, I was at Mejiro in Tokyo a few weeks ago and they had some of his flutes in stock - I played 3 of them - a 1.8, 2.4, and 2.7. They all had a smooth but thin layer of urushi inside the bore - so thin that you could still see where the nodes had been removed. They all played great, but the 2.4 was not straight at all - it had quite a twist/corkscrew to it, which surprised me. He really knows what he is doing.....
By the way, he is giving a jinashi flute making seminar at Mejiro in Tokyo next week. I had flight tickets and was ready to go until I had to cancel due to conflicting business travel........ Arghhhhh....... I guess he does the seminar at Mejiro once a year - usually during Golden Week.

edosan wrote:

John Neptune tunes his jinashi flutes with blobs of two-part epoxy placed via the end of a long stick.

Of course, he's had lots of experience doing this, and he's a great player, so he can use the wet-newspaper technique to
determine what needs to be added where.

Even if I found the right spot with wet newspaper, I think I'd have problems getting the epoxy in the same place because I find it extremely hard to judge distances inside the tube. That's why I've put off experimenting with bore repairs/tweaks.

radi0gnome wrote:

Even if I found the right spot with wet newspaper, I think I'd have problems getting the epoxy in the same place because I find it extremely hard to judge distances inside the tube. That's why I've put off experimenting with bore repairs/tweaks.

Here's one way to do it which does not involve judging distances inside the bore. While testing with wet newspaper, push the piece in with a long stick. A small piece of foam rubber wrapped around the end of the stick provides enough friction to hold onto the wet newspager piece. Use your thumb and index finger as a distance guide. Eventually they will touch the end of the flute. Once they do, pull out the stick, leave the newspaper inside, keep the same grip on the stick, line up the stick on the outside of the bamboo, use a grease pencil to mark the area where the foam rubber lines up. That's where the newspaper is inside the bore.

You can do this systematically; starting with blind tests inside the bore or by marking the outside first if you have a firm idea of where to test. Once you find the spots, you'll have a map of them on the outside of the bamboo. Then you can remove the newspaper and apply ji paste (or other filler) using the same thumb/index finger distance technique. The photo below is a "map" of bore work done using this method.

KL

Mujitsu wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

Even if I found the right spot with wet newspaper, I think I'd have problems getting the epoxy in the same place because I find it extremely hard to judge distances inside the tube. That's why I've put off experimenting with bore repairs/tweaks.

Here's one way to do it which does not involve judging distances inside the bore. While testing with wet newspaper, push the piece in with a long stick. A small piece of foam rubber rapped around the end of the stick provides enough friction to hold onto the wet newspager piece. Use your thumb and index finger as a distance guide. Eventually they will touch the end of the flute. Once they do, pull out the stick, leave the newspaper inside, keep the same grip on the stick, line up the stick on the outside of the bamboo, use a grease pencil to mark the area where the foam rubber lines up. That's where the newspaper is inside the bore.

You can do this systematically; starting with blind tests inside the bore or by marking the outside first if you have a firm idea of where to test. Once you find the spots, you'll have a map of them on the outside of the bamboo. Then you can remove the newspaper and apply ji paste (or other filler) using the same thumb/index finger distance technique. The photo below is a "map" of bore work done using this method.

Wow, nice advice! I will be using a bit of that cause I did my first 'ji' application tonight and it really is difficult to gage distances in the bore. But I have found out that slight removal of material will definitely change sound. I hate that - remove some in the right place and it sounds better. Remove some more and then it's even better. Just a bit more - and......... it's out again......... It's hard to know when to stop.

Mujitsu wrote:

TaipeiShak wrote:

It's hard to know when to stop.

One way to practice is to insert fat newspaper pieces at various hot spots (1/2 and 1/4 points) in the bore. Not to fix anything but just to see what happens. I've found this especially helpful using a flute I already know well.

Ken, good recommendation - that would be the smart way to get the ability to make predictable adjustments.

I have a question about all this bore/tuning stuff.  When applying these spot dabs of whatever material to tweak the tuning, is the dab just on the top plane of the bore or all the way around the inside of the bore? and how much of a dab is it?  I assume that it varies from hole to hole and flute to flute, but thought I better ask anyhow.

KODOAN.COM wrote:

Anyone have some tips regarding mixing non-toxic lacquer and baking powder (the arm & hammer stuff) as a Ji alternative?  It sounds like a good idea to me and I'll be trying it shortly but I figured I'd ask if anyone has done it first.

I haven't tried that. "Fix-All" works well mixed with urushi and water. It's best applied over an urushi coat. Fix-All and water alone on bare bamboo will suck the moisture out of the bamboo as it dries. It's available at any hardware store. Maybe other lacquers would work as a substitute for the urushi.