Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

  • Index
  •  » History
  •  » Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

#1 2009-05-22 17:02:01

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Josh,
     Sorry for posting this here but I lost your e-mail address somehow. I stumbled across this in the Annals of The International Shakuhachi Society Volume II. Excuse me if it's old information to you.
     Komuso Temple: Myoho-ji(Tendai Sect) Makabe-gun, Iwase-machi. It is or was apparently a sub temple of Anraku-ji on the mountain Jikyu-san in Ibaraki prefecture. Hope that yields something for you.
      Congratulations on your new bundle of life! Now you have even more of a reason.
                       All the best
                                  Jim


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 

#2 2009-05-23 05:59:00

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Hi Jim
What was that? Is Myoho-ji a komuso temple? Still existing? What's the connection, as it's Tendai? Sounds interesting. Sorry to butt in if this was only meant for Josh.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Offline

 

#3 2009-05-23 08:19:25

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

This is something I'd be highly interested in.  As I posted before I have a small number of goeika for shakuhachi that are specifically Shingon-shu. 
Doesn't really link shakuhachi with esoteric Buddhism as far as practices, but at least puts them in the same sentence : )
I study esoteric Buddhism.  So that would be cool (because I like shakuhachi) if there were some links between them.

Chris


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

Offline

 

#4 2009-05-23 10:05:14

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Josh,
     Looks like some others are interested in this also. If we get enough people beating the bushes maybe we'll find something. There was obviously some sort of connection.
Justin,
     I figure if it's posted anybody can jump in. Welcome. I've pretty much stated all the info I have. I got it off a list of Komuso Temples in the Ibaraki Prefecture in the volume stated above pg. 134. Myoho-ji stuck out because it was Tendai whereas all the other temples on the list were Soto Zen. I have no clue if it still exists but that should be easy to find out, I think.
     Chris,
       Welcome to the posse. Can you tell us more about your goeika?


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 

#5 2009-05-23 12:07:21

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Jim,
Do you know if Myōhō-ji is mentioned in Nakatsuka Chikuzen's Kinko-ryū shakuhachi shikan (琴古流尺八史観) from 1979?
He lists 77 komusō temples.
If he does mention it, it might be interesting to see if he talks more about it... My copy is in Denmark and I am in London. Ah, the joy of not settling down properly.
Chris, I do remember you earlier have posted about your interest in the connection between esoteric Buddhism and shakuhachi... maybe we are on to something here....


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

Offline

 

#6 2009-05-23 15:46:16

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Kiku,
    I have a map of Komuso temples that I can't find right now so I couldn't check. I'm not familiar with the list you referred to. Here's the little bit I know. The temples Anraku-ji and Myoho-ji both have multiple temples using those names. Myoho-ji seems to relate to Nichiren here in the U.S.   All I know about this particular Myoho-ji is that it is(was) located on Mt. Jiku-san in the Ibaraki Prefecture which is located northeast of Tokyo about 50 miles or so.
     The subject seems to be unexplored and is enticing to a number of us. Please let me know of anything you come up with anything relating to the Shakuhachi- esoteric connection. I'll keep poking around.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 

#7 2009-05-23 16:49:16

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Kiku Day wrote:

Chris, I do remember you earlier have posted about your interest in the connection between esoteric Buddhism and shakuhachi... maybe we are on to something here....

Maybe it was discussed a long time ago? Maybe there is books and facts talking about the stuff? Shomyo and the the tiles of some honkyoku clearly show it. This is also a dead horse the does not give much stuff other than historical facts etc.


http://www.shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=414


Read this thread and the stufff under the Buddhism forum and it covers most of it.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

Offline

 

#8 2009-05-24 00:10:56

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

I asked a very knowledgeable Koyasan Shingon priest about this topic and he said shakuhachi is never used in traditional Shingon-shu. 
In Shingon, at least traditionally, only the conch horn, cymbals and gong are used.  Some places not even these are used, only the vajra bell and small plate gong are allowed (like Okunoin on Koyasan).  Some Shingon temples outside of Koyasan do use other instruments but this is not traditional and has nothing to do with actual mikkyo practices.   
I think if there is a connection it must be via the Tendai taimitsu, if esoteric in nature.


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

Offline

 

#9 2009-05-24 01:59:31

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Jim Thompson wrote:

I got it off a list of Komuso Temples in the Ibaraki Prefecture in the volume stated above pg. 134. Myoho-ji stuck out because it was Tendai whereas all the other temples on the list were Soto Zen. I have no clue if it still exists but that should be easy to find out, I think.

Hi Jim
I don't have that book unfortunately. What is this list of temples about? Is it Fuke sect temples which were taken over by other sects after the Fuke sect was closed? Being taken over by the Soto sect and this one by Tendai? Or you mean in the Edo period, Soto and Tendai temples where komuso were allowed to stay?

Last edited by Justin (2009-05-24 02:00:13)

Offline

 

#10 2009-05-24 09:33:47

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Hi Jim (and everyone else here),
  Sorry I had back to back concerts this weekend and wasn't around for the beginning of the thread. (On a side note, thanks Chikuzen for nominating me for the honorary dictionary position along with others. But I have the feeling Ken was right. If I tried to post something the baby would decided to crap on me for the 3rd time in a row after changing her diapers, then Ed would show everyone how to find the answer themselves beating me to the punch. But if it does evolve into something I'll try to participate wink)
Interesting stuff Jim, and I'm sure a few others are interested. 
Chris, I'm sure the shakuhachi isn't used regularly in Shingon or other Buddhist ceremonies, but I have met more than a few priests that see the connection of this type of music and concepts such as soku-shin jobutsu. They have on occasion used shakuhachi as well as Biwa, which is highly influenced by shomyo. At Koyasan, there have been concerts, lectures (Nakamura Akikazu), as well as being used in ceremonies. There are some recordings of these performances of songs such as Ajikan, Banji etc.
Traditionally, I think it's important to not only search for shakuhachi related info but other flutes, such as hitoyogiri or tempuku. Shakuhachi related flutes can also be used as a window into the past, such as the stories of Ikkyu or Ennin who are said to have played the shakuhachi, but they weren't the instrument that we think of the shakuhachi being today. I have personally seen old Shingon Shomyo texts that describe flutes used in some of their ceremonies and music. I believe it had 6 holes though. So I think that saying that the "shakuhachi is never used in traditional Shingon-shu" is kind of a very limited way of looking at history. In the end, the history is blurry so we might as well be looking at it through a wider lense. 

(Jim, I think my email can be found under my name on the forum)

Offline

 

#11 2009-05-24 11:06:23

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Hi Justin,
    This information comes from an article (in the previously mentioned volume) titled " Bamboo Rustling in the Wind" by Saito Sessan. At one point he mentions the Komuso Kenkyu-kai (Komuso Research Group) and it's seasonal journal Ichion Jobutsu ( Attaining Buddhahood Through a Single Sound). He then abruptly gives a list he calls" A short list of Komuso  temples in Ibaraki prefecture". He doesn't say if they are past or present or any thing about the history. It is simply a list with no explanations. Here's everything he said about the particular temple in question.
                                     
Mountain:   Jikyu-san
Temple:      Anraku-ji       Former Edo Period name of location:  Joshu, Makabe-gun, Furugori
                                      Present name of location:  Ibaraki-ken,  Makabe-gun, Kyowa-machi
                                      Budai-ji (Bodhi Temple) of the Komuso temple:  Myoho-ji, (Tendai Sect) Makabe-gun Iwase-machi.
           

     That's it.
           Saito Sessan is a Grand Master of Shakuhachi in Ibaraki Prefecture. He is the head of the Chikuinsha- a federation of 150 shakuhachi players and has been teaching for 40 years.

         Justin, maybe you could give it a sniff for us.

      Josh, I figured you were pretty busy without having to perform. I can't imagine dealing with the rigors of preparing-performing while dealing with the demands of a newborn. Sounds like fertile ground for pragmatic spiritual growth. You have no choice.
      Thanks for telling me about Nara's 1300 yr. anniversary. I'm planning on being there in the Spring next year.
      Your e-mail is listed as private.
                                                              Jim


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 

#12 2009-05-24 12:27:01

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Jim Thompson wrote:

Josh...

      Your e-mail is listed as private.

Jim, your browser must be weird; Josh's email is right in the 'Email' link under his username, and opens my email client, same as when I click on yours.

It's sumisujoshu[at]hotmail


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

Offline

 

#13 2009-05-24 13:05:47

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Thanks Ed,
     You're right.  Something is up with my gear. Thanks for the coat pull. Everybody's e-mail is private to me. At first I thought it was something I posted:)

Last edited by Jim Thompson (2009-05-24 13:12:13)


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

Offline

 
  • Index
  •  » History
  •  » Shakuhachi esoteric Buddhism connection

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google