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#1 2006-06-07 09:54:37

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

I'm trying to find good threads to bind my shakuhachi with. I heard that nylon threads should do the work.
May I buy big thick fishing lines to bind the flutes with?

Any advice?

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#2 2006-06-07 13:58:40

jamesnyman
Member
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2005-10-23
Posts: 162

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

The best binding material I have used is a high tech fishing line called PowerPro. It is available at most outdoor sports stores. It costs more than most other monofilament lines but the 65 lb test PowerPro line is only as thick as a standard 15 lb test monofilament line. This allows for a much stronger/tighter binding without the added thickness. It has worked VERY well for me.


"The means are the ends in the making."  Mohandas K. Ghandi

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#3 2006-06-07 15:25:57

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Does it matter if the line is twisted or smooth? I mean will a normal nylon fishing line do well or will it need to be of more "thready" character, to lock up better around the flute?
(second language and tired after work....)

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#4 2006-06-07 17:27:22

jamesnyman
Member
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2005-10-23
Posts: 162

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

From what I have read, it seems that both monofilament and braided nylon fishing line would work well. The PowerPro line that I use has a braided look/feel to it but is super strong and micro thin. I use the green color and it looks good on bamboo,at least on Madake and Chinese Bamboo. Try looking at  www.powerpro.com


"The means are the ends in the making."  Mohandas K. Ghandi

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#5 2006-06-07 17:38:52

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Smooth monofilament is fine. It doesn't slip after the first four or five wraps, when you can pull it pretty tight.

The line that jamesnyman is referring to is more like thread, but it's also coated with some kind of wax or teflon and has a slightly slick/greasy feel to it. Almost like dental floss but a little stickier.

I considered using this, as it is quite thin, but $9-11 for a roll was a little expensive.

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#6 2006-06-07 18:00:36

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

jamesnyman wrote:

The PowerPro line that I use has a braided look/feel to it but is super strong and micro thin. I use the green color and it looks good on bamboo,at least on Madake and Chinese Bamboo. Try looking at  www.powerpro.com

James, I've used PowerPro to bind twice and I agree -- it's impossibly strong for such a thin thread.  You probably know this, but if you apply a couple of drops of thin superglue to the microfilament, it will quickly wick around the entire binding (but not onto the bamboo) and dry to a nearly black color.  To my eye, the original green color is beautiful, but not as harmonious to bamboo as the very dark color, post glue.  I'd describe it as a dark seaweed green.

My minor complaint of PowerPro... even with 20 or 30 turns, the amount of flute covered by the binding is very short.  This might look out of proportion for long, fat flutes.  More turns, easily solved.

I'm tempted to try upholstery thread as a balance more thread thickness (than microfilament, for long flute aesthetics) but still very good strength (I think).  Anyone tried this?

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#7 2006-06-08 20:00:59

jamesnyman
Member
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2005-10-23
Posts: 162

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Darren, given its utlra thiness, I find the ability to bind at any location on the shakuhachi a plus...like between the last finger hole and the thumb hole. It is easy to just add more wrappings to make it appear thicker. I have never tried superglue after binding. I am using polyurethane varnish...flowed on...which also gives the binding a nice green/black look in most cases. I have found that there is some variation in color to the green PowerPro line betwen spools, but not within spools.


"The means are the ends in the making."  Mohandas K. Ghandi

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#8 2006-06-19 14:59:46

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

jamesnyman wrote:

I am using polyurethane varnish...flowed on...which also gives the binding a nice green/black look in most cases.

James, a thin polyurethane varnish on the binding sounds like a great idea, thanks.  (Less chance of me sticking my fingerst together with the superglue approach!)

On that idea...  Have you or has anyone used a polyurethane varnish on the entire outside of the flute?  Durability of the stuff should be excellent, though maybe I'd risk making the surface look too plasticky.  I'll try it on some cheap bamboo and report back.  Polyurethane experiences, anyone?

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#9 2006-06-19 15:38:35

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Actually, the durability of a polyurethane varnish on a smooth non porous surface is only OK in my experience, not superb. It's also fairly nasty feeling - cheap, somehow. I finished the bore of a flute with it and didn't like it.

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#10 2006-06-19 22:31:36

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Call me a fuddy-duddy, but what's wrong with just leaving the outside surface alone, as has been the norm for, lo, these past centuries.

If it works, don't 'fix' it...plain ol' bamboo is a thing of beauty and durability.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#11 2006-06-20 01:03:06

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

I guess it has to do with being able to avoid binding, if the finish is moisture-resistant. I agree that no finish is best of all. I also prefer no bindings. For some climates this might not be feasible.

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#12 2006-06-20 16:54:09

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

edosan wrote:

Call me a fuddy-duddy, but what's wrong with just leaving the outside surface alone, as has been the norm for, lo, these past centuries.

If it works, don't 'fix' it...plain ol' bamboo is a thing of beauty and durability.

Heheh, don't worry Ed...  I'm not planning on dunking wonderfully naked jinashi nobekan (dare I say hocchiku) into polyurethane baths any time soon...  My question was mostly about finishing the root sections.  I'll start a new thread on that.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#13 2010-04-20 16:45:15

Taldaran
Member
From: Everett, Washington-USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 232

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

Poly varnish won't stick to the bamboo skin. It'll scrape off with a fingernail.

Works great on sanded bamboo though!


Christopher

“Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe.” Tao Te Ching

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#14 2010-04-21 13:02:18

James J.
Member
From: Upstate NY
Registered: 2007-09-11
Posts: 24

Re: Binding flutes with fishing lines... can I?

I have had very good luck with fly fishing leader as a surface binding.  It is stronger (by diameter) than other monofilament line.  The bindings are a pale greenish, and I do not think they detract much from the appearance.

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