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#1 2010-09-27 21:19:11

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

old hitoyogiri

I was traveling in Nagasaki prefecture last week and on a visit to Shimabara Castle, I came upon this display case with what is reported to be a 16th century hitoyogiri.  Though not allowed officially, I snuck a photo to show you all.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/breathin55/hitoyogiri.jpg


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#2 2010-09-27 21:22:42

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

Thanks Jeff, that's wonderful.

I had the opportunity to play some of these vintage hitoyogiri and the experience was not pleasant. However there are a few recordings I've heard that still make me interested in it.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2010-09-28 06:50:36

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

I haven't, but have heard similar stories.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#4 2010-09-28 06:53:30

Christopher B.
Member
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 235
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

Wow, really nice I have read that Dan Shinku still build such flutes right?


In reality it is Ha,Ro,Ha,Ro... ~Sensei~
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How do you know that life is a dream? Cause there is a way to wake up!
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#5 2010-09-28 07:22:01

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

Christopher B. wrote:

Wow, really nice I have read that Dan Shinku still build such flutes right?

Yes, in fact his recordings on it are nice. But I wouldn't know if his hitoyogiri are similar to the vintage ones or not without playing them.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2010-09-28 08:32:36

Christopher B.
Member
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 235
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

I also dont know but I have read somewhere that he has quite few old books and old notation for hitoyogiri. Maybe also some measurement notes or something. Maybe we should get one and try them out smile


In reality it is Ha,Ro,Ha,Ro... ~Sensei~
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know that life is a dream? Cause there is a way to wake up!
http://naturalbreath.wordpress.com/

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#7 2010-09-28 11:58:50

jeff jones
Member
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

I had had done a search on hitoyogiri awhile back and came up with some things maybe of interest, I think the picture is of someones measurements

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh29/gumpy12/-hitoyogiri.gif

Here's a link to the site
http://www.yo.rim.or.jp/~kosyuuan/kosyuan/h1yo.htm

and a video of Fujiyoshi Etsuzan playing a  hitoyogiri I believe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRCD2MH3s7E

and a link to a site where the tuning is mentioned, (A→ C→ D→ F→ G→ A) ?

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/m_seifu2005/e/9f4 … 3b22a54b6b

Last edited by jeff jones (2010-09-28 12:04:48)


Beauty is ugly at rest

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#8 2010-09-28 13:03:54

Yuusui
Member
From: Minneapolis
Registered: 2008-04-30
Posts: 61
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

Taro Miura also makes them. I didn't think to ask him about them when I visited him in June. I am thinking of getting another shakuhachi from him, so maybe I will get a hitoyogiri at the same time.


http://www3.plala.or.jp/take8/eindex.htm


http://yuusui.wordpress.com/

"Sit in zazen as if engaged in the fight for your very life!" Dogen

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#9 2010-09-28 13:16:33

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: old hitoyogiri

What a dandy little website.

His flutes are so inexpensive. I know nothing about him.

Is he a good maker?


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#10 2010-09-28 13:41:01

Glenn Swann
Member
From: Central New Jersey
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 151
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

jeff jones wrote:

I had had done a search on hitoyogiri awhile back and came up with some things maybe of interest, I think the picture is of someones measurements


and a link to a site where the tuning is mentioned, (A→ C→ D→ F→ G→ A) ?

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/m_seifu2005/e/9f4 … 3b22a54b6b

thanks for the link. very cool.  according to the text, the diagram is the measurements of the hitoyogiri that is said to have been Ikkyu Sojun's, which is pictured on the page as well.

other link enlightening as well. the blogger, seifuu, seems to like some pretty obscure stuff!

Last edited by Glenn Swann (2010-09-28 13:49:40)


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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#11 2010-09-28 13:48:36

Glenn Swann
Member
From: Central New Jersey
Registered: 2008-03-01
Posts: 151
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

edosan wrote:

What a dandy little website.

His flutes are so inexpensive. I know nothing about him.

Is he a good maker?

he used to come to the colorado camp - i met him there, but haven't been myself forever. was very nice fellow... tanka kyuudo and shakuhachi! at the time at least i thought his flutes were good. been awhile though...


I followed rivers, I followed orders,I followed prophets, I followed leaders
I followed rivers, I followed highways,I followed conscience,
I followed dreamers... And I'm back here,
and I'm back here... At the edge of the sky       (New Model Army)

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#12 2010-09-28 14:10:07

Yuusui
Member
From: Minneapolis
Registered: 2008-04-30
Posts: 61
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

I bought one of his inexpensive flutes. A nice 2.0 jinashi that plays one note lower still. I should it to my teacher when I got back home and he thought it was pretty nice. Miura was sure to let me know that the jinashi are his low end flutes. He let me play one of his jiari flutes and it was amazing. As was the price. Maybe some day.


http://yuusui.wordpress.com/

"Sit in zazen as if engaged in the fight for your very life!" Dogen

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#13 2010-09-28 15:24:47

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

jeff jones wrote:

and a link to a site where the tuning is mentioned, (A→ C→ D→ F→ G→ A) ?

If this is correct, it's in line with the extremely sharp chi we find on many older shakuhachi. Which might explain why those flutes are like that but does not explain why the pitch of 4 went down later in history.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#14 2010-09-28 16:55:59

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: old hitoyogiri

Tairaku 太楽 wrote:

jeff jones wrote:

and a link to a site where the tuning is mentioned, (A→ C→ D→ F→ G→ A) ?

If this is correct, it's in line with the extremely sharp chi we find on many older shakuhachi. Which might explain why those flutes are like that but does not explain why the pitch of 4 went down later in history.

Maybe because in the melodic lines the perfect 5th used to appear more than a sharp 5th, resulting in a constant need of "correction" while playing, so they decided to choose by one of the notes?

In my modest opinion, the "middle way" chi - not a perfect 5th nor a sharp 5th - is really cool allowing for playing the same notes with more fingerings.


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#15 2010-09-28 17:25:53

Jam
Member
From: Oxford, England
Registered: 2009-10-02
Posts: 257

Re: old hitoyogiri

Yuusui wrote:

Taro Miura also makes them. I didn't think to ask him about them when I visited him in June. I am thinking of getting another shakuhachi from him, so maybe I will get a hitoyogiri at the same time.


http://www3.plala.or.jp/take8/eindex.htm

I met him at a honkyoku ensokai at a temple in Nagoya and he was a lovely, lovely chap. He gave me a book he'd written about his experiences making shakuhachi which he'd written in a poetic style, and also a tenugui with a shakuhachi drawing on it. I had a chance to play a few of his flutes and they seemed good. If you see him again give him my regards smile

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